Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 13:47:26 GMT -5
You Go fish first...lol It been a longtime playing go fish.
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Post by zaphod73491 on Feb 15, 2018 15:50:10 GMT -5
While I like OH!'s ideas, and think he has done great work,and appreciate him sharing, I'm not convinced Forrest uses 'numbers'. Not saying he doesn't, no one knows what he did, until the chest is found... So I still feel it's possible--- WWWH might be a clue to a geographical location WWWH..... Take it in the canyon down is a clue to a certain canyon.... not far but too far to walk..... and put in below the home of Brown hints to actual geographical locations as well.... and so on. I think they might be more literal and understood that way, moreso than with number plays. Even though OH's ideas are compelling.... Jenny: I echo your thoughts, and while I don't think Forrest secreted coordinates to the chest's location in the poem (would violate the no-short-cuts statement), I think ~some~ coordinates are indeed there. Just nothing that will give away the chest's location. This paragraph is all just my opinion, but nothing here is that controversial. WWWH is a specific place, the canyon is a canyon, and the home of Brown and the blaze are specific geographic features. Not all 9 clues are places, and the poem contains both clues and hints to help with those clues. There are hints in EVERY stanza. But there are not clues in every stanza (e.g. first stanza has no clues). This last "opinion" is essentially a fact since Forrest has said the clues are in consecutive order, and "Begin it where warm waters halt" is confirmed as the first clue.
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Post by davebakedpotato on Sept 1, 2019 2:57:34 GMT -5
Each Friday, I post something Forrest Fenn has said, and ask thoughts about it. This week's is on the following, which is found on MW: Featured Q: April 5th".....if you knew the geographic location of each clue it would be a map to the treasure. f"From that statement, it would seem all nine clues of the poem can link to a Geographic Location. Or do you understand it differently? Hi. I was going to start a thread on this exact question, but seems better to resurrect this thread. Is the poem a breadcrumb type trail or not? Jenny's Fenn quote strongly implies that each clue is a place on planet Earth, so: Con: • If that is the case, then each clue is separate and distinct. And if that is true you might be able to shortcut to the middle, or even the end. Forrest has implied this is impossible or extremely unlikely. Pro: • Forrest has said that you have to follow the clues in order, which makes perfect sense for a breadcrumb trail Do you have any other Pro's or Con's? (Try and not think about your current potential solution if you can). I have a couple of ways of reconciling the apparent contradiction here (note to self: links and resolution), but interested first in building a list of pros and cons to the idea.
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Post by davebakedpotato on Sept 1, 2019 4:50:25 GMT -5
dbp wrote: Hi dbp ... Yes, I would agree that each clue is a place on a map, if we have the right map. The "Con" that one might be able to shortcut to the middle or even to the end is not valid, but is often brought up by searchers. If you're talking about a really small geographic area, one that can be hiked in a few hours, then yeah, you might be able to shortcut your way through. Which is exactly what an "observational" approach does; it allows searcher to become aware of multiple clues from one location, thereby providing the opportunity to see 2 or 3 or more clues concurrently. That in turn reduces the number of clues one needs to find, resulting in an unearned shortcut. Many and maybe most searchers seem stuck at this "small area" scale. Again to repeat, searches want a treasure hunt that is easy, one that does not require a lot of thinking. To shortcut their way to the end would be preferable to these searchers. If, however, one broadens the scope to encompass a bigger area, by changing the geographic scale, then it would not be possible to shortcut one's way through the clues, simply because there are so many geographic options one could take, that the next clue must be discerned from the poem itself, not from any surrounding landscape or "view" at some magical "observation" point. Ergo, each of the nine clues must be solved independently of the preceding clue, and from the poem (which can be done at home), not from walking/hiking through some small area looking for water high or the blaze. Forrest implies as much in the poem itself when he says "too far to walk". But searchers have twisted his meaning in an effort to justify their preconceived solution. So yes, I think the hunt describes a "breadcrumb" trail, or a "stomping" method as one person has spitefully called it. But those demeaning terms fail to render this approach ineffective or glib, as the last 9 years of the Fenn treasure hunt have shown. Great stuff Drift, your approach is one of getting the correct 'resolution', so is my second potential way of reconciling the apparent difficulty - get the right scale/resolution. Interesting that you can also make an argument for a *very* small scale solution working, although I see you disagree. Be gentle! - I have a few questions How do you reconcile the large scale solution idea with the 200/500 feet searchers? How do you know you have the right solutions to each clue, given the size of your area of clues? Not attacking your idea at all, it's probably more that I'm too stupid to answer some basic questions!
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Post by goldilocks on Sept 1, 2019 6:46:37 GMT -5
Pro:
15) Is all we have to do is work out what your words mean and follow them? Like walk from place to place like a scavenger hunt or what? Yes, and take your map with you. f (from MW Workshop with kids)
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kk
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Post by kk on Sept 1, 2019 10:13:50 GMT -5
I don't think Fenn provides any direct answers in any single method, be it coordinates, language use, anagrams, codes, crosswords, etc.
I think a little bit of everything is going to be required, in the end.
As far as Jenny's question goes, I think each of the 9 clues are geographic locations in a single general area. He has said (paraphrasing) that a clue moves you closer to the treasure. I am not sure how that can be true without it referencing a specific geographical reference in either place or instruction.
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omni
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Post by omni on Sept 1, 2019 17:19:26 GMT -5
I'm also in the camp that all 9 clues are not necessarily distinct locations. I think a few clues may reference the same location and simply be further hints to finding it. For example, "Not far but too far to walk" does not seem in any sense a geographic location, it's a rough distance.
I think the poem contains approx 5 locations to be found in all. I could be wrong though. This is more theory for me that fact that I am going with.
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Post by davebakedpotato on Sept 2, 2019 6:19:40 GMT -5
dbp wrote: Actually, the bigger area concept is defined by geographers as "small" scale. If one considers the geographic layout of the search area there's no conflict between a big area, and people coming to within 200 feet and 500 feet. Too many times, I think, searchers envision a linear or curvilinear path from WWWH to the chest, or some circular path. Different geographic features, however, necessitate going around, over, under, through terrain; linear or circular paths are just not feasible, especially in rough, mountainous areas. The short answer is I don't know. I'll only know for sure when I test out my theory onsite. The longer answer is something I'd rather not get into. I get your drift, drift. Thanks. My respect for people goes through the roof when they say "I don't know"
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Post by goldilocks on Sept 2, 2019 6:46:41 GMT -5
Pro: 15) Is all we have to do is work out what your words mean and follow them? Like walk from place to place like a scavenger hunt or what? Yes, and take your map with you. f (from MW Workshop with kids)
If taken literally, his verbal comment would contradict his poem, which says "too far to walk". So how do you reconcile that apparent contradiction?
The correct answer I believe is ... it's not a contradiction. Yet searchers, many of whom have given up on the poem, take his verbal comments literally and with no exceptions. Three possibilities: 1.) The "or what" in the question is F's way out of giving precise answer 2.) He was answering the first question and not the second 3.) The word "like" in second question is his way out of giving precise answer - something "like" walking - could be another mode of transportation. Personally I do not think TFTW should be taken literally, and more importantly is not a clue.
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omni
Junior Member
Posts: 74
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Post by omni on Sept 2, 2019 23:07:36 GMT -5
I find it more interesting that he told them to take their map with them. Could be a hint towards a few things.
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Post by foolsgold on Sept 10, 2019 17:09:33 GMT -5
I'm more curious about "names on the map" as opposed to "geographic locations."
Common sense tells me that there has to be at least 1-2 clues that should give us a "named" location on the map. It is doubtful that the majority of the clues refer to literal cartographic features (otherwise we could skip some).
So, my best guess is "first couple of clues" are the only ones with names on the map. However, there are probably hints to other named geo features in the first stanza that are there to help determine WWWH, which is the first point on the map, followed by "the canyon down."
What do you think?
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Post by astree on Sept 11, 2019 5:38:38 GMT -5
I'm more curious about "names on the map" as opposed to "geographic locations." Common sense tells me that there has to be at least 1-2 clues that should give us a "named" location on the map. It is doubtful that the majority of the clues refer to literal cartographic features (otherwise we could skip some). So, my best guess is "first couple of clues" are the only ones with names on the map. However, there are probably hints to other named geo features in the first stanza that are there to help determine WWWH, which is the first point on the map, followed by "the canyon down." What do you think? Agree.
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Post by Jenny on Sept 11, 2019 6:48:04 GMT -5
I'm more curious about "names on the map" as opposed to "geographic locations." Common sense tells me that there has to be at least 1-2 clues that should give us a "named" location on the map. It is doubtful that the majority of the clues refer to literal cartographic features (otherwise we could skip some). So, my best guess is "first couple of clues" are the only ones with names on the map. However, there are probably hints to other named geo features in the first stanza that are there to help determine WWWH, which is the first point on the map, followed by "the canyon down." What do you think? In order for the Little Girl from India to identify the first clues (and only those), it would seem that what you are suggesting is correct-- that only those first two clues are named on a map.... the other clues are only identified by following the poem and discovering their precise locations. For Example-- and only an example-- WWWH= Madison Junction Canyon down = Madison Canyon home of Brown, however, is not 'named' on a map. Suggesting it isn't Hebgen Lake in this example. OR if the 3rd clue was a place named on a map, why couldn't the Little Girl of India get 3 (or 4) clues? Of course the home of Brown's location is on a map, as all places are, but its precise location is not marked/named on a map like the first two clues-- you have to discover this spot on your own-- matching your imagination for what it could be with Forrest Fenn.
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Post by zaphod73491 on Sept 11, 2019 14:39:34 GMT -5
Hi Jenny: do keep in mind the map scale (and level of detail) implied by the wording of your question to Forrest. If you have a solitary map of the entire U.S. Rocky Mountains, it will probably contain all the rivers, major mountain ranges, notable peaks, large lakes, larger cities and towns, highways and major roads. But it's not going to have most creeks, county boundaries, small secondary roads or forest service roads, minor mountain peaks, etc. So one possible explanation for why Li'l Indy can't get closer than the first two clues is that her map doesn't have sufficient detail.
But the other possibility is that she actually *can* solve more than 2 clues, but doing so doesn't get her physically closer to the chest than she'd already be solving just the first 2 clues.
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Post by richard on Sept 11, 2019 19:46:08 GMT -5
I'm more curious about "names on the map" as opposed to "geographic locations." Common sense tells me that there has to be at least 1-2 clues that should give us a "named" location on the map. It is doubtful that the majority of the clues refer to literal cartographic features (otherwise we could skip some). So, my best guess is "first couple of clues" are the only ones with names on the map. However, there are probably hints to other named geo features in the first stanza that are there to help determine WWWH, which is the first point on the map, followed by "the canyon down." What do you think? In order for the Little Girl from India to identify the first clues (and only those), it would seem that what you are suggesting is correct-- that only those first two clues are named on a map.... the other clues are only identified by following the poem and discovering their precise locations. For Example-- and only an example-- WWWH= Madison Junction Canyon down = Madison Canyon home of Brown, however, is not 'named' on a map. Suggesting it isn't Hebgen Lake in this example. OR if the 3rd clue was a place named on a map, why couldn't the Little Girl of India get 3 (or 4) clues? Of course the home of Brown's location is on a map, as all places are, but its precise location is not marked/named on a map like the first two clues-- you have to discover this spot on your own-- matching your imagination for what it could be with Forrest Fenn. Actually, I don't believe there is any place in the poem named directly on the map. That is why the TC has not been found. But I believe if you read TTOTC closely and apply logic to somethings he has said, you can deduce the HOB. Forrest said begin "it" WWWH. But I believe in order to begin the Quest not "it", you must first discover the true HOB. When you do, everything but the place where the TC is set to ground comes together. With that you must go BOTG to confirm it's precise location and pick it up. Forrest also said you didn't need TTOTC to find the TC, but that is vailed truth. If you don't research him, then without TTOTC, I don't think you stand a chance at finding the TC.
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