You are right of course. I think what I find most surprising (and frustrating) is that still after years and years NOBODY is sure about the format of the solution. The master riddle clearly mentions numbers, Neil's solution to the grid has numbers as part of it. It seems that numbers must be part of the solution. Co-ordinates would provide an accurate pin point location, yet Pete would prefer a description of where the token is hidden. Inatimate 1 makes a VERY valid point...Pete knows where the token is he can easily find the co-ordinates of that location and therefore can very quickly see if a submitted solution matches or not, he doesn't have to look anything up or check the co-ordinates. He can very quickly just check the numbers and see if they are right or not.
So, what I take from his response is that the solution is NOT in the format of co-ordinates. We've been through this before with Grid References. If the solution does not use a co-ordinate system then we have to ask ourselves, what does it use? If numbers are part of the solution there needs to be a way that we move from numbers to a physical location.
Post by inatimate1 on Mar 12, 2019 13:53:18 GMT -5
It might seem a bit off topic, but earlier on I was watching a video of a guy trying to solve a 29 piece Jigsaw puzzle, that forms a perfect square, and contains 5 corner pieces. The pieces are all your typical jigsaw pieces, but completely transparent.
I won’t post a link to the video as I don’t want to feel like I’m plugging someone, but the jigsaw is here...
One of the key things that came out of the video is that despite it being fiendishly difficult (the person in the video took over 2 hours to finally work it out) a 7 year old girl was apparently able to solve it pretty quickly.
The whole solution comes about when you don’t tackle the jigsaw in the standard way, most of us would start by getting all the edge pieces together and working inwards to the centre, it was only when the guy was able to work out what was in the middle and work outwards with pieces that just “fit” that he managed to stumble upon the solution. He concluded that the 7 year old would probably have found it easier because they wouldn’t have grasped our standard jigsaw solving methods and just put pieces together because they fit, even if to the average human it would have looked wrong.
I noticed that Pete has said a 9/10 year old could solve it with effort. Maybe this is just another case of everyone trying to look very deeply into everything and assuming that there’s a lot more complexity to something that to someone a lot younger would look at and take on face value?
The question is, how would a 9/10 year old approach this, as opposed to the way we would?
As a follow up to the thing I’ve mentioned about the co-ordinates/location comment. One of the clues asks how we can pinpoint a moving target? Well, by working out where it will be/was at a specific time. I think the whole reason why he has to look up the co-ordinate submissions is because he has to work out the location at the time. ie, if someone submits an answer saying the token is at xyz, then he will check that answer for the specific time the submission was made. So one of us may actually have submitted a location that could have been correct, but not at the right time.
I think Pete has a solution for a specific time. This now doesn’t necessarily mean the token has to be moving, which is the frustrating part. If the Sun and shadows etc is the way to pinpoint the treasure, then at, let’s say, noon, the token is going to be in the correct location, whereas at 2pm the token would be in the wrong place, but there would still be a valid solution which Pete would accept that fits everything.
Personally I think the time where the token is obtainable by following the clues is either 19:08, or more likely 3pm (I’ve always felt that the Crucifixion picture is the “pinpoint the location” picture). It’s just trying to find where and how the location is determined.
For that theory it would mean: The CD (token) is moving to different coordinates. Ship, Plain, Bus, Subway... for all an entrance fee is required. A shadow at a time of the submission day changes everyday, but the token cannot move with it. Can it? Is there a moving sundial in uk?
Hi Sarah, Every sundial is moving. Think of it like this, within our Solar System the only fixed point is the sun, everything is moving relative to it. A moving shadow on a sundial is because the Earth is moving and therefore EVERY sundial on it IS moving relative to the sun. From our perspective because we are on a moving planet we have the illusion of the sun moving relative to us.
I'm not sure if thinking like this helps us though.
Hi Marc, yes right. I meant the token cannot move with the shadow to different coordinates. Good idea. The sun is fixed so it might not be our moving target. The moon is moving and is maybe the adequate "light-source"... Something can move with the tide also horizontally ...
From what I can recall: Pete employed an artist, so some of the details in the pictures are down to that artist Pete prefers a description to co-ordinates 'Holistic' means we should think about the concepts that the pictures (and chapters of the story!) represent A 10 year old - with a bit of work - could solve this hunt
I am working on the basis that something in that post triggered him to make progress...
Maybe he has a 9/10 year old that’s come up with an idea 😁
It is a bit odd to be fair, I guess the only person who knows why is illuminatinps, Neil has pretty much nailed everything that was in the post, I’ll have to check for a cached version when I get back from my trip on Friday.
I seem to also remember a part that said the clues don’t give any information about where the token is, but are a strong push in the right direction of how to go about finding the solution. That might be from another Q&A though.
Last Edit: Mar 20, 2019 4:33:01 GMT -5 by inatimate1
I'm still having a lot of fun thinking about the location of the token. When it comes to a submission I'm a little bit confused with one thing: 1) We're supposed to submit one squaremetre 2) Pete prefers coordinates for our submissions (find info here in this thread) 3) We cannot get a proof of numerical coordinates from the book (Pete's answer to my question on the forum) 4) the coordinates vary from google maps (maps vs. satellite) and Googe Earth a lot (also with history pictures) 5) "You will know without a doubt"
For me that means A) we must calculate or even "guess" the location - so there must be some kind of tolerance limit (how big?) OR B) Get the exact coordinates from somewhere else
Pete said he preferred a description rather than co-ordinates - it saves him having to look them up.
I don't think we will need to guess. As with all puzzles, until we find the solution we have no idea what to look for. However, once you actually solve a puzzle you do indeed know it's correct without having to be told.
More complex puzzles (such as most treasure hunts) have little indicators along the way to let you know you are on the right track. Sadly, it seems that this hunt does not - so the only indication you are ever going to get is when your method leads you all the way to a specific location.