Looking at The Poem through the eyes of The Gold Bug

[goldilocks]

The first step in deciphering the cryptograph in The Gold Bug by Edgar Allen Poe was to determine the language of the code. I have read lots of posts extracting English words from the poem. If you are using this method, how can you be sure another language isn't at play, like Spanish for instance? 

I have looked at this grid method and the first thing I noticed was how many double vowels and double consonants can be found within the poem (not just within words but words next to each other, both vertically and horizontally). How could we use these letter repetitions to help us decipher a word within a hidden message?

[goldilocks]

I am sinking deep into this rabbit hole...I forgot to add diagonally - both ways! Perhaps when he said don't mess with my poem, it's because the letters need to line up just so. What if we were to eliminate all of the double letters from the poem, what would we be left with? What if you fill in each letter block that is a repetitive letter with a color, would it paint a picture, much like a dot to dot? So many possibilities, so little time...now try this in Spanish, Latin, Greek...time for me to crawl back up to the surface.

[seannm]

Goldi,

You need to refocus.

mysteriouswritings.com/featured-question-with-forrest-pirates-and-treasures/

Seannm

[heidini]

With Sean saying refocus... super ironic! In gold bug- didn’t they find the treasure because they dropped something through the eyes? Focus. eyes. (I feel this isn’t related to the chest)

[goldilocks]

Apr 22, 2019 21:43:56 GMT -5 seannm said:

Goldi,

You need to refocus.

mysteriouswritings.com/featured-question-with-forrest-pirates-and-treasures/

Seannm

Sean, that is the worst quote ever to back up your refocus comment  That quote tells me absolutely nothing, but I do appreciate your opinion. Refocus on the poem or do you mean no ciphering necessary? Is a simple anagram a cipher? My advice is listen less to what Forrest says because the risk is high for misinterpretation. P.S. I don't give away all my secrets... 

[seannm]

Goldi,

The point I was trying to make is that it is possible that the example of how Captain Kidd encrypted the directions to his treasure may be similar to how Forrest employed his methodology or Avenue he used to present his clues and start searchers on the hunt, as that featured Q and A said. Just an idea.

Now the Gold Bug was a work of fiction based around the legend of a historical figure Captain William Kidd who had indeed secreted treasure away for future recovery, but may never had created a map to its location, and who would in fact do it in the manner that Poe had depicted in his story unless they wanted someone else other than themselves to try and find it as Forrest has done in his treasure hunt. So again my mentioning of The Gold Bug in my video was to present one of the possible stories Forrest may have read about treasure hidden by pirates and the similarities to how Forrest and Captain Kidd had cryptically left directions to their cache/trove.

Seannm

[goldilocks]

So you were agreeing with me...

A side note, all that Q and A said was that he has read about other pirate treasure hunts and methods used to hide those treasures. The next sentence about needing an avenue is completely a separate response from the first question. He is sly because the 2 answers aren't necessarily related at all (he does this a lot when answering questions).

[seannm]

Apr 23, 2019 10:22:34 GMT -5 goldilocks said:

So you were agreeing with me...

A side note, all that Q and A said was that he has read about other pirate treasure hunts and methods used to hide those treasures. The next sentence about needing an avenue is completely a separate response from the first question. He is sly because the 2 answers aren't necessarily related at all (he does this a lot when answering questions).

Goldilocks,

Agreed. They are two separate answers, but somewhat related. It is why I relate it to the Gold Bug so much because the Gold Bug is a story about a treasure hidden by a pirate and is an example of a cryptic literary version of a map to a hidden treasure, if you will. And the poem is the avenue used to present his clues which may be a literary version of a treasure map as well. So some very close similarities. (Sorry I realize I am repeating myself).

And recall Forrest did thank Poe for the favor in a Scrapbook # I don’t at this moment recall.

Seannm

[zaphod73491]

Goldilocks and Seannm: I think a more relevant Fenn quote (as far as reducing the # of rabbit holes) is this one:

MW Q&A (9/5/2017): "Hello Mr. Fenn, For those of us that do not speak a lick of Spanish, would a Spanish to English dictionary be helpful in our search for your treasure chest? Thanks, John"

FF: "You should not need to look any words up John. Good luck. f"

While Forrest doesn't come right out and say knowledge of foreign languages won't help you, I certainly interpret this ATF that way.

[heidini]

Apr 23, 2019 11:54:07 GMT -5 zaphod73491 said:

Goldilocks and Seannm: I think a more relevant Fenn quote (as far as reducing the # of rabbit holes) is this one:

MW Q&A (9/5/2017): "Hello Mr. Fenn, For those of us that do not speak a lick of Spanish, would a Spanish to English dictionary be helpful in our search for your treasure chest? Thanks, John"

FF: "You should not need to look any words up John. Good luck. f"

While Forrest doesn't come right out and say knowledge of foreign languages won't help you, I certainly interpret this ATF that way.

I have looked up words, translated them into Spanish, German or French etc to help develop a richer etymology base understanding. Latin base languages - but there are subtle nuances that I perceive from the different angles. May not be for everyone, but it works for me.

[goldilocks]

Apr 23, 2019 11:54:07 GMT -5 zaphod73491 said:

Goldilocks and Seannm: I think a more relevant Fenn quote (as far as reducing the # of rabbit holes) is this one:

MW Q&A (9/5/2017): "Hello Mr. Fenn, For those of us that do not speak a lick of Spanish, would a Spanish to English dictionary be helpful in our search for your treasure chest? Thanks, John"

FF: "You should not need to look any words up John. Good luck. f"

While Forrest doesn't come right out and say knowledge of foreign languages won't help you, I certainly interpret this ATF that way.

Notice how contradictory that statement is to others he has made regarding the importance of definitions. I was thinking more along the lines of towns with Spanish names which when translated mean something relevant to the Chase. That wouldn't require actually speaking the language. You "should" not need to look up any words is not as definitive as you "do" not need to so he does leave the window open for interpretation. I guess I still can't eliminate the possibility that there may be a word or name hidden in the poem in Spanish, Latin etc. Best to stay away from his words and stick to the poem and book like he's been saying from day one. Zap, just curious, how do you feel about using simple anagrams to decode poem?

[zaphod73491]

Hi Goldilocks: well, for what it's worth (which at this point is nothing more than the photons this message generates!), my solution requires no knowledge of any language other than English, and no obscure, archaic, or slang word definitions. Now, I realize that some searchers may not have been exposed to the common meanings of some of the poem's words (e.g. tarry, scant and blaze), while others may have misconceptions about the meanings of some others (e.g. meek and nigh). In those cases, I see no harm in checking a dictionary to learn or confirm the most common meanings. But I don't believe Forrest is being deliberately deceptive with his words; I think he was being 100% truthful when he wrote all of the following things:

Dal's website under "Insight" (10/18/2011): "Dear Morgan, I am glad you are taking your sons into the chase. My book is straight forward and there is nothing that is designed to mislead. I was 79 or 80 when I hid the treasure so you should be able to haul it out with the help of your two sons. I am interested to know where you go and how you far (sic). Good luck. f"

In a follow-up note, Forrest added: "I would not have hidden the treasure if I didn't want everyone to have a fair chance of finding it. f"

Dal's blog under Forrest LIVE on HuffPost, posted by Forrest Fire (2/5/2015): "... I have never used any name on the blogs other than Forrest Fenn and Forrest Fire, nor have I said anything with the idea of leading or misleading a searcher."

MW Random Words (3/16/2017): "*Don't look for a trick or subterfuge from me, because there aren't any. f"

The next quote you can choose to be skeptical of if you like, since it was in an email to Mindy from Forrest which she posted to ChaseChat, and therefore it may not be 100% reliable (though I still think it is):

"... I have always said the poem will lead you to the treasure if you have the right map and know where to start. It is straight forward so there is no need to over-think it or look for commas or misspellings as clues. It was not written with the idea of fooling anyone."

And finally, from "On the Road with Charlie - Part One" (5/8/2017) - my transcript: "But the poem is straightforward. If you can figure out the clues there ... there's nothing in that poem that would make you think that I'm trying to fool you. I have never discouraged anybody from looking any place, or led them toward it and I never will. There's no tomfoolery in that poem. It's straightforward."

So I would say Forrest has been very consistent in his description of his motivations and the poem's intent.

Now, to answer your final question: "Zap, just curious, how do you feel about using simple anagrams to decode poem?"

I guess that would depend on your definition of "simple." For instance, I've seen searchers anagramming entire lines of the poem, which is a fool's errand. Anagrams are inherently dangerous because they're almost never unambiguous. So with few exceptions, I would say anagrams are a bad method for a puzzle-designer to provide a *clue's* answer. That said, I do not see a problem with providing *hints* via anagrams -- just so long as those hints don't entail unique, critical information.

Forrest enjoys wordplay, so I think it would be a mistake to assume he wouldn't embrace any methodology he fancied for providing subtle hints, whether in his poem, his books, his Scrapbooks, or other public information.

[goldilocks]

Thank you Zap. I think you hit the nail on the head with the word wordplay.

[fennster]

There is a connection with Captain Kidd and the Gold Bug in my solve, but it has nothing to do with this.

[van]

Found this audio book, I thought it was worth the time.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhN5qUiNgpw