10-Page Essay: Confirming The Correct Forrest Fenn Where Warm Waters Halt (W.W.W.H.): After Six Years, a Seasoned Searcher Believes He's Finally Done It.
By: Justin Heberle
What I believe is the smoking gun that confirms W.W.W.H. in The Thrill of the Chase never before mentioned anywhere to my knowlege (no, it's not the painting)
Over 600 potential W.W.W.H. locations with name, city, state, county, elevation, and coordinate information from the GNIS.
The Forrest Fenn quote used to reduce the field down to only a few possible legitimate W.W.W.H. possibilities.
Three other potential "finds" I've found over the last six years just using the poem that also confirm the general area on where to start.
I honestly feel I'm dropping a complete game-changer with this 10-page essay. I'm convinced I have figured out W.W.W.H. and where in the book Mr. Fenn intended you to know it. Anyone that knows me or has interacted w/ me on these boards knows I would not do this if I didn't believe I had found something truly spectacular.
After you buy, I will email you both the 10-page essay and Excel document w/ over 600 potential W.W.W.H.s
Post by minotaurmoreno on May 31, 2019 14:39:51 GMT -5
Fully knowing what I was getting myself into yesterday, I decided to offer up my little ole' essay and attachment to the Forrest Fenn's Treasure Galore Facebook group and its 2,200 members. I've been a member for many years, but rarely posted to the group, so I'm pretty unknown to them.
Boy, did I kick up a hornets nest!!! Over the next couple of hours, I was called a no-good, money-scamming, snake-oil selling, charlatan in one form or fashion by roughly 20 people, possibly more of the members. Members were calling for me to be booted out of the group, etc. Never one to back away from confrontation when I feel I'm being attacked and, if I'm being honest, someone who likes to play in the mud every once in a while, as the arrows were flying all around me, I did my best to get a few good jabs in back, but I was definitely losing the fight.
I then decided to change my course of action. Whether really doing so or not, truly feeling I really am attempting to provide the community something I feel is really special for the price, I proposed a challenge to the group. We would pick someone who was completely neutral, I would provide my essay to the person for free, and he would write a review of my essay for everyone to read.
An hour later, as the barbs continued, he came back with this:
Confirming The Correct Forrest Fenn Where Warm Waters Halt (W.W.W.H.): After Six Years, a Seasoned Searcher Believes He's Finally Done It.
The following is my review of Justin Heberle's report.
DISCLAIMER: Justin Heberle and I do not know each other, we have never met, and he is not paying me to write this review.
In his disclaimer he states his "opinion" of which of the 600 locations listed in his database is most likely the correct one, using mainly TTOTC and the poem. He states clearly that he isn't stating his conclusion is 100% correct.
Included with the report is a GNIS list of 600 potential places for WWWH, including hot springs and other potential locations (including NM trout waters). This database took 10's of hours to compile - the list alone is worth the $25 he charges.
Justin uses selected Fenn quotes to selectively narrow down and determine, and in his mind confirm, which of the locations in the list are special to Forrest Fenn. Not only does he identify his choice, but uses the poem, book references, quotes, insight and logic, backed by data confirming his logic. Whether or not you believe his choice for WWWH, his hypothesis will have you doing some rethinking about "your" own solve for this most important clue.
I believe this report and the database will give a searcher a huge advantage over other treasure hunters.
Post by zaphod73491 on May 31, 2019 17:36:51 GMT -5
I went through this GIS-like exercise 4 years ago when I first learned of the Chase. I visually raster-scanned over 3,000 15' topo maps of all of Montana and Wyoming in the Fenn search zone, plus 2/3rds of Colorado, compiling an Excel spreadsheet of all place names and their quadrangles of anything potentially "Fenn-y": warm waters, blazes, homes of Brown, heavy loads, water high, brave places and cold places. Took over 1,000 hours. Why did a stop with a third of Colorado left plus northern NM? Because I had an epiphany about WWWH, smacked my forehead and realized it had to be right. Worse, that those 1,000+ hours had been a waste of time.
So, MM and I probably have hundreds of the same places identified, but I'm confident Forrest's WWWH is not among his 600. It's not a named location on any map, IMO.
Post by minotaurmoreno on Jun 1, 2019 17:57:49 GMT -5
zaphod73491 - Yeah, a few years back, I went to the GNIS site, uploaded all the GNIS places in New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana north of Santa Fe into a database table. There were 10’s of thousands of places loaded. I then queried that list to only return all hot springs, anything with the word hot, cold, warm, or cool in English or Spanish or a few other possibilities that I forget now. That returned the list of over 600 GNIS places in the file I provide. I do this kind of work for a living and we would have charged our clients $500 to $800 to do this same exact work.
heidini - I’m right in the thick of my working years, have young kids, limited vacation, and a wife who could care less about treasure hunting for fun. Since I don’t live in the search area, and don’t get summers off, I have a very limited ability to go BOTG (I’ve been on 1 BOTG in six years). We do plan to go next summer (2020) on vacation there, but likely will only “treasure hunt” for one, maybe two days. Why not put out some, what I feel, is really good information to help someone that has more time than I do?
It's interesting that recent article said an estimated 46563 TTOTC books have been sold and 54 people have solved WWWH. If I understand correctly, that means 1 in 860 book buyers or so have solved WWWH. It's the toughest clue. It seems about right given how spread out everyone is, and how many possibilities there are. If it's true, I wouldn't think it can be any of the common WWWH, but maybe that's reading too much into things.
In the long history of this treasure hunt, that statement has become trite.
Ninety percent of serious searchers have already made, or alluded to, that statement. These searchers don't have the chest, despite their confidence. So, over the years, a pronouncement by anyone that they know for sure where warm waters halt not only rings hollow, but comes across as pretentious and swaggering, even if the person making the pronouncement happens to be correct. Hence, the poor reception you received at the facebook group.
Over at the HOD just in the last day or two, Dal has written where he thinks WWH is. And some readers actually believe him. I don't. Dal has been searching for the chest far longer than my 4 years of searching, and he still doesn't have the chest. Of course neither do I. But his WWH is way too obvious and conspicuous to be of interest to me.
So your essay is going to be a tough sell, in my opinion. It might sell better among treasure hunt newbies. But experienced hunters are far more skeptical of pronouncements claiming correct knowledge of anything in the poem.
Nevertheless, I wish you well in your efforts. I think you will find that this forum accords posters a much more open and welcoming reception of new theories and alternate ideas, vis-à-vis other forums.
I think the feedback you are getting has more to do with the $25 price tag you put on your years of work. It somehow belittles all of the effort you put in to it and does the opposite of what you are trying to achieve. In light of all of the people posting items for sale on eBay it cheapens the information you are selling, in my opinion. I've read your posts over the years and respect your passion. Maybe putting it up for auction instead of putting a price on it would've been the better way to go.
Post by zaphod73491 on Jun 2, 2019 13:42:22 GMT -5
Drifter: haven't been to Dal's in many weeks (and haven't posted there in 6 months). By late 2018, HoD had become dominated by a small minority of searchers who have been around forever, but seem to have no clue how to solve the poem. Some have posted literally hundreds of thousands of words and managed to write absolutely nothing of value as far as the solution.
Ken is one of the few standouts: he has a good head on his shoulders. JDA is polite and seems to be loved by nearly all, but he is stuck on the same spot in Wyoming (29 trips last I recall), and thus is now emotionally committed to his incorrect solution. Then there's Charlie (no M) who is convinced the clues cannot be solved, thinks "nailed down" is a hint to a hardware store in western Montana, and that the poem simply gives coordinates to the chest (or maybe the blaze, I forget which). Then there's Jake who thinks WWWH is Ojo Caliente (how original!) and that TFTW is a long ass way (also wrong), but in this case two wrongs do make a right and he's actually searching in the right very general area.
Shall I assume from your post that Dal is still convinced Madison Junction is WWWH? It's better than most choices, and used by many, but still arbitrary and wrong.
Hi Drifter: Ojo is a worse WWWH than Madison Junction, so Dal is moving in the wrong direction. The only reason anyone fixates on Ojo is "River Bathing is Best," which is in TFTW not TTOTC. Yes, the story is on Forrest's website, but neither it nor TFTW are mentioned by Forrest as being good "research materials," and nothing in the poem suggest OC as WWWH.
I have never considered northwest Wyoming as a likely place for Fenn's treasure. Among other reasons, that area is just way too obvious, per Fenn's verbal comment that within TTOTC there are "subtle clues". His chapter title "In Love With Yellowstone" is hardly >>> subtle.
We might be surprised to learn that some well known searchers may be much further from understanding the poem's clues than many plebeians. Toby Younis still thinks HOB refers to a fish.
Post by zaphod73491 on Jun 5, 2019 12:03:16 GMT -5
Hi Drifter: yeah, Toby and Shelly put on a quality YouTube show, and Toby does some good research tracking down things like the Gilbert Gaul black & white painting. But to think that WWWH has anything to do with New Mexico fishing regulations is to entirely dismiss Forrest's warning about specialized knowledge. Home of Brown has nothing to do with fish, bears, beavers, Molly Brown, YNP Ranger Brown, or any feature on a map that has as part of its name "Brown." As you point out, Forrest isn't that obvious.