|
|
Post by Jenny on Jun 20, 2019 6:10:57 GMT -5
Forrest has said: "Some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close."
What was the reason for those known to have solved the first two clues, to not have found it? What might they have missed? Why did they walk past the treasure?
Especially when we have Forrest saying, “Those who solve the first clue are more than half way to the treasure, metaphorically speaking. f"
|
|
|
|
Post by Jenny on Jun 20, 2019 8:56:58 GMT -5
Is 'home of Brown' so difficult to understand, even once on location?
|
|
|
|
Post by Jenny on Jun 20, 2019 11:12:32 GMT -5
Quote from Forrest:
“If a person reads the poem over and over…and are able to decipher the first few clues in the poem, they can find the treasure chest. It may not be easy, but it certainly isn’t impossible. I could go right straight to it.”
So why didn't they?
|
|
|
|
Post by zaphod73491 on Jun 20, 2019 12:36:36 GMT -5
Is 'home of Brown' so difficult to understand, even once on location? Hi Jenny: at least for some of those searchers who got the first two clues right, I think the reason they fail to solve any more is actually explained in your question. They mistakenly think "home of Brown" is the third clue. |
|
|
|
Post by Jenny on Jun 20, 2019 13:11:54 GMT -5
I'm not sure they would be mistaken...... but I understand your suggestion.... and that is a possibility.....
|
|
|
|
Post by zaphod73491 on Jun 20, 2019 13:16:04 GMT -5
"Not far, but too far to walk" is a clue, IMO. And not just some vague distance. It is a logic puzzle.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jenny on Jun 20, 2019 13:42:35 GMT -5
"Not far, but too far to walk" is a clue, IMO. And not just some vague distance. It is a logic puzzle. lol.... you lead up to my next Question for tomorrow (or next week)..... (it's about that line)....but we'll stick here for now..... I don't really get too obsessed in 'counting clues' because I am one who believes the entire poem is vital... as Forrest has commented not to dismiss any word.... but when trying to understand how someone can get 'two clues' correct, and not the others, it is beneficial to consider what clues he is talking about. We know he said BIWWWH is the first clue...... so what is the second one they supposedly got right? The correct Canyon? And so what you are suggesting is they missed the distance? (or the meaning of the line, NFBTFTW) That is very good... I like that idea.... Keeping with that line of thought then, I suppose when Forrest commented someone may have gotten 4 clues correct, but wasn't sure, he thinks someone did then identify the 'home of Brown'.... again, though, why at that time did they miss the treasure? (please know I'm just discussing, not convinced of any one way or another).... |
|
|
|
Post by zaphod73491 on Jun 20, 2019 21:06:04 GMT -5
"Not far, but too far to walk" is a clue, IMO. And not just some vague distance. It is a logic puzzle. lol.... you lead up to my next Question for tomorrow (or next week)..... (it's about that line)....but we'll stick here for now..... I don't really get too obsessed in 'counting clues' because I am one who believes the entire poem is vital... as Forrest has commented not to dismiss any word.... but when trying to understand how someone can get 'two clues' correct, and not the others, it is beneficial to consider what clues he is talking about. We know he said BIWWWH is the first clue...... so what is the second one they supposedly got right? The correct Canyon? And so what you are suggesting is they missed the distance? (or the meaning of the line, NFBTFTW) That is very good... I like that idea.... Keeping with that line of thought then, I suppose when Forrest commented someone may have gotten 4 clues correct, but wasn't sure, he thinks someone did then identify the 'home of Brown'.... again, though, why at that time did they miss the treasure? (please know I'm just discussing, not convinced of any one way or another).... I agree, Jenny, that clue-counting can be a distraction from the problem. After all, Forrest didn't count them until he was done. What's interesting after all these years is that the only things we know for sure are clues are WWWH and the blaze. Yes, there is strong circumstantial evidence that "Put in below the home of Brown" is a clue, but mainly because of Cynthia's exchange with Forrest on the topic. (For those unfamiliar, at the time she was using a CCC cabin as her home of Brown, and Forrest disabused her of that notion saying something like, "Don't you remember? I said it can't be associated with any structure.") Lending support to that line being a clue was Forrest's "Sounds like 3 or 4 to me" retort to the reporter who suggested after reading the second stanza that it sounded like a couple of clues. We already know WWWH is one, so it sounds like we need at least 2 more (and I believe there are 4 total in stanza 2). But returning to your 2-clues-right point, yes: it seems beneficial to me to be able to confidently identify what those two clues might be. Forrest tells us we have to solve them in order and that there is no other way, so it's likely the two-cluers solved #1 (WWWH) and #2. So the next question is: is "Take it in the canyon down" the second clue? I think most believe so (as I do). Your next point: NF,BTFTW. Yes, I believe it's the third clue and the big failure point. I think you'll agree that if it *is* a clue, and the clue's answer is not a distance, then that would go a long way toward explaining the complete lack of progress for over 5 years after the first 2 clues were solved. |
|
|
|
Post by Jenny on Jun 21, 2019 6:25:33 GMT -5
Great discussion, Zaphod73491......
And yes, you bring up where Forrest suggests Stanza 2 having '3 or 4' clues within it......
So in counting clues (which as mentioned, is beneficial in this particular exercise, but a distraction in the overall big picture).... we have to consider the rest of the poem, and so if we count 4 clues in stanza 2, how does that affect the count for the rest of the stanzas? (to end with 9):
So it has been suggested:
Begin it where warm waters halt---------------1
And take it in the canyon down,----------2
Not far, but too far to walk.--------possibly 3rd
Put in below the home of Brown.-------------4
Which leaves the other 5 (and only 5) to be found in the following Stanzas.....(and it should be noted again, the counting of 9 clues does not mean the rest of the poem is dismissed...definitely not! I believe the entire poem is vital. However, Forrest counted clues...said there were 9, said WWWH was clue 1, and implies strongly the Blaze is clue 9.... so in trying to understand 'how people can 'walk past the treasure'', it's interesting to contemplate how Forrest thinks, and how he is numbering the clues- and why?'
So the next stanzas:
From there it’s no place for the meek,
The end is ever drawing nigh;
There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
Just heavy loads and water high.
If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
Just take the chest and go in peace.
To end with Blaze as 9 (for this example/possibility), 'Heavy Loads and Water High' has to be considered as 1 clue, and not two separate clues. As do Wise and Blaze.
Is this because in Forrest's mind, 'Heavy loads and Water High' is a clue to the same location on the map?
We are told to 'marry the poem to a map'..... and is this how Forrest sees the poem? Each clue hinting to a different aspect of following a map....
|
|
|
|
Post by zaphod73491 on Jun 21, 2019 13:59:59 GMT -5
Hi Jenny,
"To end with Blaze as 9 (for this example/possibility), 'Heavy Loads and Water High' has to
be considered as 1 clue, and not two separate clues. As do Wise and Blaze."
I guess that depends on what constitutes a clue vs. a hint. Going with your assumption
that the blaze is clue #9, that would leave four clues to be extracted from four poem
lines, plus the beginning of a fifth:
From there it's no place for the meek,
The end is ever drawing nigh;
There'll be no paddle up your creek,
Just heavy loads and water high.
If you've been wise ...
Since the "wise" comment is past tense, and yet the clues are consecutive, contiguous and
sequential, I think that's a good argument for tagging it as a hint rather than a clue: if
you've been ~previously~ wise. So, down to four lines and four clues. "From there it's no
place for the meek" has the earmarks of a clue to me: it addresses the contiguous aspects
of the clue by starting with "From there". The question is whether the clue is complete
with that line, or needs to be combined with the next. It could be the case that you are
at a decision point at the "Put in below the home of Brown": a choice of two (or) more
options. So the clue might be equivalent to "Not A, but B":
From there it's no place for the meek (A), the end is ever drawing nigh (B);
Similarly, the next two lines could be another binary choice: Not C, but D:
There'll be no paddle up your creek (C), just heavy loads and water high (D).
If both of these are true, then you are actually now short a couple clues because it would
mean "If you've been wise and found the blaze" is a hint plus clue #7.
This works better with my solution because I definitely do not believe the blaze is clue #9.
"We are told to 'marry the poem to a map'..... and is this how Forrest sees the poem? Each
clue hinting to a different aspect of following a map...."
There is some decent circumstantial evidence that every clue is a place or waypoint:
"Dear Forrest, What's more important in solving the search, a greater knowledge (‘knowlege’)
of Toponymy or Geography? Chris"
FF: "I don't know how Toponymy can help you at all Chris (I had to look that word up). But
if you knew the geographic location of each clue it would be a map to the treasure. f"
"Geographic location of each clue" certainly sounds like each clue is a place with a specific
location.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jenny on Jun 22, 2019 7:45:34 GMT -5
Whether the Blaze is Clue #9 or not, it does seem that if that is found, so will the chest. Mr. Fenn: How far is the chest located from the blaze? ~ casey Casey, I did not take the measurement, but logic tells me that if you don’t know where the blaze is it really doesn’t matter. If you can find the blaze though, the answer to your question will be obvious. Does that help?f mysteriouswritings.com/featured-question-and-weekly-words-from-forrest-blaze-measurement/ |
|
|
|
Post by Jenny on Jun 22, 2019 7:46:24 GMT -5
Which if that is the case, why do you need other clues... and we know they are in consecutive order....
|
|
|
|
Post by zaphod73491 on Jun 22, 2019 15:40:33 GMT -5
Which if that is the case, why do you need other clues... and we know they are in consecutive order.... Are you asking, why do we need preceding clues if we can find the blaze? I think you know the answer:
"Mr. Forest, I was just wondering. If I can find the blase, why should I worry about where warm waters halt? All I need to do is look ‘quickly down’ like the poem say, and there is the treasure, right? ~Philadelphia Franklin"
FF: "That’s correct Philly, but that’s not a plausible scenario. If you can find a fish already on your hook you needn’t go fishing, right? Don’t force those kinds of aberrational thoughts on yourself or you’ll likely walk back to your car with a very light back pack. f"
and
"You can’t go out looking for the blaze and expect to find the treasure chest. There’s ten billion blazes out there. So you have to start with the first clue and let it take you to the blaze."
What Forrest is saying is that his blaze is not so obvious that, in the absence of information about its general location, you would be able to choose it over the billions of others.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jenny on Jun 22, 2019 16:01:09 GMT -5
Which if that is the case, why do you need other clues... and we know they are in consecutive order.... Are you asking, why do we need preceding clues if we can find the blaze? I think you know the answer: "Mr. Forest, I was just wondering. If I can find the blase, why should I worry about where warm waters halt? All I need to do is look ‘quickly down’ like the poem say, and there is the treasure, right? ~Philadelphia Franklin" FF: "That’s correct Philly, but that’s not a plausible scenario. If you can find a fish already on your hook you needn’t go fishing, right? Don’t force those kinds of aberrational thoughts on yourself or you’ll likely walk back to your car with a very light back pack. f" and "You can’t go out looking for the blaze and expect to find the treasure chest. There’s ten billion blazes out there. So you have to start with the first clue and let it take you to the blaze." What Forrest is saying is that his blaze is not so obvious that, in the absence of information about its general location, you would be able to choose it over the billions of others.
No, I was saying that if you followed all the clues in consecutive order, like we are told to do, and found the Blaze, then why would you need any clues 'AFTER' the Blaze? Forrest has said you are surely going to be able to find the treasure chest once you have found the Blaze. This implication from Forrest suggests that the Blaze is clue #9.... (so why then would you then need any others...Maybe instructions or hints are after the Blaze, but not clues, per Forrest's definition of a clue at least) I agree it would be a fruitless search to just go looking for Blazes.... obviously you have to follow the clues.... but again, once found by following the poem, it seems you will be able to find the chest, as Forrest has said. |
|
|
|
Post by zaphod73491 on Jun 22, 2019 18:41:02 GMT -5
Ahh! Sorry, Jenny -- I didn't pick up on where you were going with that. When you wrote "other clues" I mistakenly assumed *prior* clues, not later ones. In any case, I have an answer for you. Suppose the blaze isn't particularly small -- in fact, suppose it's something quite large. If the treasure chest is "within" that blaze, then the answer to the question about how far the chest is from the blaze is indeed obvious: it's ZERO. But you could still have no idea where the chest is.
|
|
