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Post by susb8383 on Aug 11, 2019 13:58:56 GMT -5
I take it back! I found the text of the sonnets online and assumed it was Shakespeare's. Turns out it was a book of sonnets from James Vila Blake!
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Post by susb8383 on Aug 11, 2019 14:15:23 GMT -5
I keep thinking numbers.
Twice Round might mean 00 And Through might mean - as in subtract. (Monday through Wed can be written as Monday - Wed). Then if "a stately deed is referring to Blake's sonnet #108, it could mean subtract 108.
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Post by efanton on Aug 11, 2019 18:18:02 GMT -5
I take it back! I found the text of the sonnets online and assumed it was Shakespeare's. Turns out it was a book of sonnets from James Vila Blake! Still doesn't mean it wrong. How significant to Americans (knowing that Lukas is american) is James Vila Blake?
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Post by inatimate1 on Aug 12, 2019 3:10:00 GMT -5
I take it back! I found the text of the sonnets online and assumed it was Shakespeare's. Turns out it was a book of sonnets from James Vila Blake! Still doesn't mean it wrong. How significant to Americans (knowing that Lukas is american) is James Vila Blake? I wouldn't worry about the significance of James Vila Blake to Americans, we've got E6 on the main hunt from a pretty obscure Norwegian band. Google is both a blessing and a curse when it comes to hunts, hunters can find information pretty easily, but the puzzle setter can easily use an obscure town in Mongolia as the basis for setting a hunt. Lukas could have found Blake from a long list of poets, looked at his sonnets and devised his puzzle that way. If we are going with "A stately deed" being a reference to Blake Sonnet 108, then "we hath a way to go" could be a reference to Shakespeare's sonnet 145 where the phrase "hate away" is supposedly a reference to his wife. Now to find a link to other sonnets from the other two lines.
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Post by efanton on Aug 12, 2019 8:24:22 GMT -5
I keep coming back to the word KNOT
Twice round an through -could it be a WINDSOR KNOT, the formal way to tie a neck tie? That would tie in (no pun intended) with Royalty or the State
Also there seems to be a knot cipher, but I am a bit confused as to what it actually is. Some seem to think its simply a path through a grid of letters where each letter is used once and once only using all letters, but if you think about that logically then its simply a fancy anagram but limited to using adjacent letters
Others seem to imply its a method of encoding text. I have yet to find a simple explanation of how to decrypt text using it. All articles I have read explain how to encrypt not decrypt resulting in groups of three letters. Does anyone have simple explanation as to what a knot cipher is and how to use it?
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Mini Hunt
Aug 12, 2019 13:10:50 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by inatimate1 on Aug 12, 2019 13:10:50 GMT -5
A knot cipher uses strings of three letters to determine the drawing of a knot formation on a grid.
The first two letters of the string give a grid reference (along and down) with the third letter determining what appears in the box, so BDF would be two cells along, and four cells down and the design which appears in that box would be whatever corresponds to the letter "F".
Given that we have three lines of 17 it is plausible that there could be 17 different designs to make a knot, but the range of letters suggests to me that it won't form anything definitive. I wouldn't rule it out completely so it might be worth investigating further.
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Mini Hunt
Aug 12, 2019 13:14:43 GMT -5
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Post by inatimate1 on Aug 12, 2019 13:14:43 GMT -5
I think the encoding a message in text is more of a way to go from drawing to text and vice versa. So a drawing of a knot on a grid could be translated to text, but the only real way to hide a written message from a knot cipher letter string would either be by rotation (thus giving a different letter string based on the original string of letters) or by actually drawing out words on the grid by using the cipher string.
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Post by efanton on Aug 12, 2019 13:59:52 GMT -5
A knot cipher uses strings of three letters to determine the drawing of a knot formation on a grid. The first two letters of the string give a grid reference (along and down) with the third letter determining what appears in the box, so BDF would be two cells along, and four cells down and the design which appears in that box would be whatever corresponds to the letter "F". Given that we have three lines of 17 it is plausible that there could be 17 different designs to make a knot, but the range of letters suggests to me that it won't form anything definitive. I wouldn't rule it out completely so it might be worth investigating further. Thanks that makes a lot more sense to what I have been reading
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Post by elysethecat on Aug 12, 2019 16:48:43 GMT -5
I keep coming back to the word KNOTTwice round an through -could it be a WINDSOR KNOT, the formal way to tie a neck tie? That would tie in (no pun intended) with Royalty or the State Also there seems to be a knot cipher, but I am a bit confused as to what it actually is. Some seem to think its simply a path through a grid of letters where each letter is used once and once only using all letters, but if you think about that logically then its simply a fancy anagram but limited to using adjacent letters Others seem to imply its a method of encoding text. I have yet to find a simple explanation of how to decrypt text using it. All articles I have read explain how to encrypt not decrypt resulting in groups of three letters. Does anyone have simple explanation as to what a knot cipher is and how to use it? I arrived at Windsor Knot last week, but haven't been able to successfully apply it as a route solve. Was thinking it could indicate a potential keyword. Also relative: Merry Wives of Windsor (Hathaway), House of Windsor/Windsor Castle (stately deed). I've been traveling, so haven't had much time to toy around with it but applied a few, similarly themed 17-letter keywords without success. If no one solves it by next week, I'll take a real crack at it. I'll be on a sailboat in a remote location for 7 days without electronic devices (except my phone for emergencies/photos) so I'll try and crack it with the old fashioned, pen and paper method.
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Post by efanton on Aug 12, 2019 18:23:14 GMT -5
I keep coming back to the word KNOTTwice round an through -could it be a WINDSOR KNOT, the formal way to tie a neck tie? That would tie in (no pun intended) with Royalty or the State Also there seems to be a knot cipher, but I am a bit confused as to what it actually is. Some seem to think its simply a path through a grid of letters where each letter is used once and once only using all letters, but if you think about that logically then its simply a fancy anagram but limited to using adjacent letters Others seem to imply its a method of encoding text. I have yet to find a simple explanation of how to decrypt text using it. All articles I have read explain how to encrypt not decrypt resulting in groups of three letters. Does anyone have simple explanation as to what a knot cipher is and how to use it? I arrived at Windsor Knot last week, but haven't been able to successfully apply it as a route solve. Was thinking it could indicate a potential keyword. Also relative: Merry Wives of Windsor (Hathaway), House of Windsor/Windsor Castle (stately deed). I've been traveling, so haven't had much time to toy around with it but applied a few, similarly themed 17-letter keywords without success. If no one solves it by next week, I'll take a real crack at it. I'll be on a sailboat in a remote location for 7 days without electronic devices (except my phone for emergencies/photos) so I'll try and crack it with the old fashioned, pen and paper method. Enjoy the sailing, the next best thing to being on a motorcycle. That's one of my dreams, get a blue water sailboat (37 to 45 footer) and just take off for a year or two. One day I will have the time and money to do it.
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Post by efanton on Aug 15, 2019 8:48:48 GMT -5
We hath a way to go (endurance race) From gate to steed (Le Mans) Twice round and through (24 hours) A stately deed (Monaco GrandPrix, or Indianapolis 500 on Memorial day)
Going back to my initial thoughts on Le Mans about the Le Mans start (from gate to steed)
The actual Le Mans race is 24 hours. On an analog clock that would be twice round (2 x 12 hours) (Twice round and through)
Le Mans is also one part of the "Triple Crown" of Motorsport. Le Mans, Indianapolis 500, and the Monaco Grand Prix (could that be the stately deed, Monaco being a is a sovereign city-state, or country which has a royal family)
The Indianapolis 500 is always run on or near Memorial day in the USA, a day honoring the military personnel who died while serving in the US armed forces (surely this would count as a stately deed, this idea is a bit tenuous I know)
So how to tie in the first line. Again this is a bit tenuous, but they are all endurance races (a way to go), considered the pinnacle of their respective sport (touring car, Formula 1 and Indy Car)
There is only one man that has won all three and that is Graham Hill (Norman Graham Hill OBE, unfortunately no combination gives 17 letters, and his first name or surname do not appear on any line of the encrypted text)
So back to square one, with no idea of what this hunt is about, and no solution to the encrypted text, I fail to see how it all ties in and although the pieces fit its probably becuase you see what you want to see. Without a context for the puzzle its hard to see whether this is truly relevant
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Post by efanton on Aug 15, 2019 10:22:08 GMT -5
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Post by artofhiddenmessages on Aug 15, 2019 11:53:00 GMT -5
I am going to throw my two-cents out here. When I first saw the riddle, I thought about horse ("steed") racing. In particular, the Kentucky Derby because of two things that are prominent in the riddle. The horses have to go around the race track twice ("twice round"). And of the Triple Crown Races, the Kentucky Derby is the only one of the three that uses the name of a state ("stately deed") in its title.
But the beginning of the riddle starts with "WE hath a way to go". So I think the answer to the riddle will be persons, or a group of persons plural, like jockeys. Then that will be the key word to unlock that cipher.
Just my thoughts....
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Post by susb8383 on Aug 15, 2019 15:15:57 GMT -5
Those are some good points. So do you think the text is using some kind of cipher that needs a keyword?
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Mini Hunt
Aug 15, 2019 16:05:52 GMT -5
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Post by efanton on Aug 15, 2019 16:05:52 GMT -5
Those are some good points. So do you think the text is using some kind of cipher that needs a keyword? Did you not read my post? Straight from the horses mouth, the verse gives a keyword that is used to decrypt the cipher text
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