The 30th and Final Clue: What do you Think?

[tess]

OK, on the lie front, I've taken that a slightly different way (more laterally really). Although I agree there are hundred different things you could interpret as a sort of lie (Pied Piper, UK joined to mainland Europe, the hammer, etc, etc.), a fair few of the lies people have come up with have felt a little bit forced and based on their own interpretation.

Instead, I've taken the lie to be LY. Because, to me at least, there's quite a few indicators in both the poems and the pictures pointing to both L and Y - for example, Jesus is in a Y shape on the cross (maybe that intersection?), 'you must find out why' and so on. You could also look at 'lie' another way - to lie down or be laid to rest. I've pretty much always targeted graveyards with this puzzle, just because I think there are a fair few indicators to finality and rest. I'll also admit I quite like that LY can stand for Light Year as well

The other thing I'll say is that I honestly believe is that anyone should start this puzzle with the Einstein picture as I think it sums up the various components you need all in one picture (including an L and a Y) to find the parts you need to solve this.

[sarah]

Hey Tess, nice thoughts. True, there are many things you could interpret as lies. Although the poem says "Every picture tells a lie" - And what could we do with each single lie?

I also wanted to share another thought for the clue "Major Intersection": If this was the right solve then I don't believe we should look for any lines crossing on the map. Instead I think we need to look for the major intersection of Space and Time.

[tess]

L and Y are in every picture, although I will say it's open to interpretation/very much based on the symbolism of things rather than what's literally represented. Take the Greek picture for example, the L is found in the right angled triangle but to see the Y, just look at the wooden horse's head.

So, for my theory, the L is the general location, and the Y is the token marker.

The L for a location is straightforward in a way - you can find a corner on a thousand different buildings, walls, roads, etc. It's a matter of finding the correct one.

I believe Y is the token marker precisely because of the Crucifixion picture - that spear is going to one thing and if that thing isn't Jesus (not written in the scripture), then it's the 'Y' on a cross (X marks the spot). Now this is more difficult because you'd need to work out what that Y represents and what cross it's on.

In summary, my personal solve theory is as follows:

1. Find the general location (L)
2. Find 4 points within that location by navigating to them within the space using time (I believe there's clues in the puzzle that helps you know when you've reached each point)
3. Form a cross (the X marking the spot) using the 4 points to lead to the token marker (Y)

[tess]

Basically, it's sort of a screwed up version the Cartesian coordinate system - plot X and Y on an L graph

[xodiak]

Sarah/Tess,

I've always had the view that finding the lies in the pictures is critical for finding the solution. I know pete has said the devil is in the detail but I don't think the lies are in the details. I think they are symbolic and generally quite easy to see (but it's very difficult to understand the reasons for the lies). e.g. mountains in the caribbean, pied piper in london, space shuttle in moon picture, 2 cats in the box. I believe Pete even hinted on the tweleve forum that the space shuttle is the lie in the moon picture.

If you look too hard I think you can come up with more than one potential lie for most pictures and then you are in trouble because you will be considering things Pete never intended. IMO it's very unlikely that Pete guided the artist on every small detail for every picture so I think it is important to look for things that are clearly out of place.

Over the years I've gradually come to a conclusion about what each lie is and what Pete is "telling" us with them.

[tess]

To be fair, I have used certain things that are clearly out of place within the context of certain pictures for their symbolism (especially the monk in the Crucifixion picture and the Pied Piper). I've seen so many various interpretations of what those 'lies' are and whilst some seem like reaching based on inconsequential detail, there's sometimes more than one 'obvious' lie.

Take the Moon picture mentioned in this thread alone for example - xodiak, you've raised the shuttle and Sarah, you've raised the hammer. And to be honest, you're both absolutely correct - both of those elements are out of place if the image represents the hammer and feather gravity experiment. So does every picture tell one **or more** lies then? Or one's a lie, one's artistic licence, if so, which one? Which one's more 'obvious'? That's the issue I've always had with seeking out a 'lie' per picture.

[sarah]

Yes, true. In 8 pictures I also found more than just one lie. We‘re all puzzling the solution which our brain wants us to see. maybe we should vote for the biggest lie in each picture

tess, maybe the L is a hint to the 90 degrees angle and not the other way round.

[tess]

Sarah, the L symbolism works for right angles used as part of time based navigation, 'right' as in correct, and the shape of the location itself for me - sorry, I probably wasn't clear about that (I have a whole 4 dimensions/parallels thing going on with right angles that I reduced down to its basics in this thread).

In the case of the Moon picture, I believe both contain valid clues - the 3/backwards E in the case of the shuttle, and the box shape of the mallet combined with the mountain shape in its top corner. One I've used for ordering, one I've used as a confirmation of a general location - there's a mountain nearby, it's just not a literal mountain.

For me, both finding Ls and Ys in every picture and finding **all** the 'deliberate mistakes' in every picture works for me as it doesn't set any self imposed limit what might be important. It's the restriction of picking a single 'important' lie per picture that I've always found difficult. Picking a 'top 10' of lies, then discounting other anomalies as artistic licence can be as damaging to a solve as analysing every little detail, as no-one will ever agree which one is most 'important' per picture.

It's a bit like all the ships (and I include the shuttle in there). I hardly ever see the ships mentioned much in discussions on here, yet I think they're hugely important and I have seen a few discount them as artistic licence.

[xodiak]

Pete's master riddle says "every picture tells a lie" which to me suggests a single lie. It's certainly possible that he intended more than one lie per picture but in my opinion he only intended one (except perhaps pyramids and greek pages but due to the red herring and the trojan horse I've always been wary of trusting anything in either of those pictures anyway).

If there should be just one lie per picture then you are right that different people may not agree which is the intended lie. I've certainly changed my mind on a couple over the years.

[tess]

Exactly the problem - master riddle suggest a single lie per picture, looking at the pictures suggests multiple lies. And you raise a good point - Peter happily says there are red herrings. Which adds another layer of difficulty - which lie is a 'good' lie and which is a red herring?

Interested in your position on the Greek and Pyramid pictures btw as the former very much helped crack my preferred location from my start point and the latter sort of tells me what to do once I'm there. Makes me wonder if I got it all wrong!

[curious]

on the original website Pete wrote this in the forum (Greek):
Comments:
Greeks

Greeks picture is another surreal representation, it depicts many Greek icons.

Can you find the clues?
Posted by Admin


Which clearly suggests there is more than one clue to be found in the Greek picture?

There are many lies in the Greek picture and some link directly to the story. e.g. bow of ship, olympic flag. I think we have to link up one picture to another. See my post in symbolism thread ..... be nice to have someone comment on that as it reveals findings that haven't been mentioned anywhere

[tess]

Read the last two lines in a lateral way - it doesn't give you everything you need but, trust me, it does help:

'To more row', the 'high land' 'D answers',
In 'glory us’ ‘X 2 C' and ‘joy f u ll' 'a band on'

'joy f u ll' is particularly tricky but when you get it, hugely satisfying!

[Neil]

Does the fact that "joyful" only has one L impact your theory?

[tess]

Oct 8, 2020 17:03:35 GMT -5 Neil said:

Does the fact that "joyful" only has one L impact your theory?

Fair comment. I am basing my writing out of that particular word based on the fact that the feather in the hat in the Plague picture points to the word FULL in the border with 2 Ls. Basically, this theory of how these last two sentences are structured is aligned to the 'answers' I've gotten from both the book and the supplementary clues already. For me, I kind of need 2 twice and with one L, I would be missing a second 2. But more than happy to be proved wrong with different theories - easy to focus on the wrong things in this puzzle and I've certainly done that before!

[Neil]

I have been trying to look at this with fresh eyes.

It occurs to me that the acrostic may exclude the last four lines, so...

MAJOR SECRET IN:
On a beautiful summer's morn
New hope arises with the dawn
Tomorrow, the highland dancers
In glorious ecstasy and joyful abandon