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Post by GeneticBlend on Dec 28, 2018 11:37:29 GMT -5
It was at this point where I had some help. And I can't give any more hints, as I promised someone else I wouldn't give all the hard work involved away. But what I've given should help getting you all started.
Good luck!
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Post by zaphod73491 on Dec 28, 2018 13:51:43 GMT -5
No worries, GB -- I've got several more ideas to try out. I understand from HMA that you solved one of Jenny's challenges from 2017 (?), so you've got prior experience with the sorts of tricks she has up her sleeve. Nevertheless, congratulations on being one of the first and the few to solve this one!
My problem is that I have a lot of past exposure to cryptanalytic problems that tend to "pollute" my thinking. But I know enough to avoid systems that would be too difficult for Jenny's audience to solve (e.g. digraphic systems like Playfair, Two Square, Four Square) -- particularly systems that she never mentions in her book. Jenny is a visual person, so I'm sticking to visual systems.
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Post by zaphod73491 on Dec 28, 2018 17:39:12 GMT -5
Hi again -- okay, I discovered something I had overlooked when I solved one of Jenny's other puzzles. Since I think it's relevant to solving Forrest's Special Words, I don't want to spoil anything by blurting out the answer. But I think it's safe to say that what I thought was just a random letter scramble (with a pretty obvious solution) is actually a unique and purposeful arrangement. In other words, it only *looks* random.
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Post by Jenny on Dec 29, 2018 14:02:05 GMT -5
Just to note:
Since I did not want the 'coded words' to be solved immediately, or before those who ordered the book had the chance to work on the code themselves, I felt this layer of encoding was necessary. I knew there would need to be 'Trial and Error'-- which does take time. The code had to take time to solve, and yes, probably caused some frustration. But don't all great things do? The feeling of accomplishment and the 'aha' moments are more appreciated then- in my opinion.
I'm sure from past experiences of treasure hunts which were either too quick to solve or never solved, there is an understanding there has to be created a definite balance between making a puzzle 'too easy and quick to solve' to 'too difficult and impossible to solve'.
I feel I have found that balance.
The coded words can be solved. However, time is needed to 'try things'.
Also, I felt if there was discussion and a sincere desire/effort put forth for solving the coded words, I would offer help/hints, if needed, on how to do so.
This is still the case. I will happily confirm any string of letters-- or order of that string of letters- a searcher has found. I know this makes a huge difference, and it is a hint I have planned to give.
There are a few who have solved the words, know what Forrest says to searchers, and worked on discovering them, though. So out of respect for these searchers, and their effort put forth, I don't feel I should reveal or give away clues to make the solving of them too easy. At least not yet.
And even though I am surprised by the lack of discussion on trying to solve the coded words, the book has done amazingly well, and I'm quite pleased with it. It is the first one I've written of its nature. I've heard from many readers who are actively, but very quietly, working on the coded words..... and who have enjoyed the book and other puzzles within.
I thank you all for supporting me in the project...and MW. It is most appreciated.
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Post by zaphod73491 on Dec 29, 2018 15:51:39 GMT -5
Hi Jenny: I think you've done an excellent job with your first book, and in particular (as I wrote above) in the design of the Fenn Special Words puzzle. It is not an easy thing to create a puzzle that strikes that magic balance between trivial and impossible. Worse, when you are the only one who knows the solution, you are uniquely ill-positioned to gauge its difficulty. What I appreciate is that you clearly understand the necessity for a means of confirmation when trying to solve a multi-stage puzzle. Thanks for the challenge!
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Post by GeneticBlend on Dec 29, 2018 17:25:24 GMT -5
Jenny,
I love your book. It is a great resource for the armchair treasure hunter. Having Forrest Fenn's coded words, and "The Forgotten Word" puzzles in the book are an added bonus.
Making the puzzle solution in layers (or steps) is an excellent idea. You do feel a sense of accomplishment when you solve one of the layers. You even feel a sense of excitement when you realize what the possible connection is between one step and the next, and you can't wait to try it out.
Yes, there are certain steps of the puzzle that are frustrating. I was especially frustrated at the next step. (The one where people on the forum are currently stuck.)If people know it may feel like it is impossible to solve at times, and that they may feel the same level of frustration that I did, but they keep trying, it WILL pay off. They are not alone. There is a solution.
I just wish I could figure out "The Forgotten Word"!
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Post by Jenny on Dec 30, 2018 13:29:34 GMT -5
Thanks for the kind words Zaphod73491 and GeneticBlend.... means a lot.
MW, and its projects and myself, are always a work in progress..... I learn so much EVERY DAY...lol...
And to repeat: those working on the coded words, please know I will confirm any string of letters you may discover, so you can know you are on the right track...(just pm me here)
best to all...and thanks again...
jenny
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Post by harrytruman on Jan 2, 2019 14:00:41 GMT -5
Hi again -- okay, I discovered something I had overlooked when I solved one of Jenny's other puzzles. Since I think it's relevant to solving Forrest's Special Words, I don't want to spoil anything by blurting out the answer. But I think it's safe to say that what I thought was just a random letter scramble (with a pretty obvious solution) is actually a unique and purposeful arrangement. In other words, it only *looks* random. If I'm looking at the same/correct puzzle, the arrangement of letters definitely looks random. Using this as a template for arranging the puzzle pieces has me stumped, but I'm still working on it.... Any luck, Zaphod? |
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Post by zaphod73491 on Jan 2, 2019 15:36:25 GMT -5
Hi again -- okay, I discovered something I had overlooked when I solved one of Jenny's other puzzles. Since I think it's relevant to solving Forrest's Special Words, I don't want to spoil anything by blurting out the answer. But I think it's safe to say that what I thought was just a random letter scramble (with a pretty obvious solution) is actually a unique and purposeful arrangement. In other words, it only *looks* random. If I'm looking at the same/correct puzzle, the arrangement of letters definitely looks random. Using this as a template for arranging the puzzle pieces has me stumped, but I'm still working on it.... Any luck, Zaphod? Hi Harry: first order of business on that puzzle is solving the anagram, which I'm guessing you've done. Number the letters of the unscrambled phrase from 1-16. Then go back to the puzzle and replace the letters with their corresponding number. The difficulty is that many letters (e.g. H) are not unique, so you can have up to 3 choices for some of those letters. There are 48 permutations, but one of them is very special and clearly deliberate on Jenny's part. That's the arrangement you want to find. |
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Post by harrytruman on Jan 2, 2019 17:00:34 GMT -5
Oh, thanks! I've had "what did you find first?" stuck in my head, and I keep stumbling over that I guess. Now I see the correct arrangement -- very nice. Now on to the next hurdle....
Jenny, I really am new at this, but I'm getting hooked. I bought your book for the Forrest Fenn content, honestly, but I devoured most of your puzzles and even started looking into some of the other hunts (e.g., Beacon Star).
It's all fun stuff. Also sometimes baffling and frustrating. But definitely fun.
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Post by ferretz on Jan 5, 2019 1:45:31 GMT -5
Anagram? What anagram?
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Post by ferretz on Jan 5, 2019 2:40:26 GMT -5
OK, never mind, I get the anagram.
I presume the solution involves going through every page with Forrest's words on it and counting every single word looking for a potential match.
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mcb
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by mcb on Jan 5, 2019 18:41:51 GMT -5
Nothing yet?
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Post by zaphod73491 on Jan 5, 2019 19:34:33 GMT -5
McB: GeneticBlend solved it a while ago. I'm pretty sure I've figured out the first two stages. Given that the result of those first two stages does not yield text with an English letter distribution, coupled with the (new-as-of-today) knowledge that Jenny utilized a keyphrase-encrypted Vigenere for her 1st Fenn Medallion challenge, I think the next stage of the Fenn Special Words challenge may be Vigenere decryption. There are three Vigenere variants, so I need to check which variant she used on the Medallion challenge since she'd probably be consistent. |
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Post by zaphod73491 on Jan 5, 2019 20:06:23 GMT -5
Okay, I confirmed Jenny used standard Vigenere encryption for the first Medallion challenge: key comes in on the left, ciphertext found on that line, plaintext found at the top of the column.
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