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Post by jdiggins on Jun 24, 2020 15:35:34 GMT -5
Indigojones Yes i agree, different from many riddles. Not knowing where to start is IMO what makes everyone come up with such diverse search areas. Annoying but he said it would be difficult. And it was. I am not sure however about bringing architectural drawing skills would be necessary. IMO Felt like an architect relates to the method of ‘building’ each clue. I like your thinking. My solve is possibly even in the wrong state, i asked someone to check over my solve once. They couldn’t be convinced- even though i was 99% certain, and many of the anagrams fitted. Hi annie and all. If I told you that the word that is key was 'Rainbow' would you believe me? maybe not but hear me out before you condemn ok? Forrest did offer some advice when he said 'simplify' Prior to the beginning of the poem he mentions: "So I wrote a poem containing 9 clues which if followed precisely will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure" notice he mentions rainbow first. So to simplify which of the four states would you choose to begin your search in if you truly believed the rainbow was important? I am guessing you would choose 'COLORADO' because it has color in it. We are simplifying don't forget, so why not. 'ISAAC NEWTON' conducted experiments in light using a prism, you would need 3 geographic location clues to form one on a map, his initials are 'IN' used often in the poem. However to create one on the map you would need to know where to start and find the elusive first clue. This is where rainbow science holds the key. There are two known colors in the rainbow which have degrees of angle attached to them, RED is 42 degrees and relates to the chest weight, and BLUE is 40 degrees. You can recreate this if you go and Google 'COLORADO' map which presents it without any curvature. In the poem are the words 'warm' and 'cold' which deal with temperature also measured in degrees, on faucets RED is HOT and BLUE is COLD' yes? Verse 6 line 2 of the poem says: "Your effort will be worth the cold" so return to the degrees of angle of rainbow colors and you should now know you need to use the 'COLD' BLUE angle of 40 degrees, so use this in your effort. COLORADO map is one of only two real box states, the other is Wyoming. So if we are to use 40 degrees of angle to get to the interior of Colorado where do we start from? Answer: one of the four corners, the one that get a result is the South East one. Place a protractor center here and project 40 degrees into the map. This is the precision you need to find the elusive first clue, go ahead, try it yourself it will take you to WHERE WARM WATERS HALT. This is the beginning of your search. Of course I have to say IMO. Let me know how you get on. indigo. Indigo, this is good stuff. Seriously, one of the most logical and simple ways to follow the poem. Thanks for sharing! |
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Post by harrytruman on Jun 24, 2020 15:45:00 GMT -5
Satisfying one's curiosity sounds fine to me, but since the actual competition is over, I personally think the games are unnecessary and the insults (being "just amazed" at searchers who didn't use a "system" that started with identifying one of the four states and therefore "wasted a lot of time and money") really serve no purpose. |
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ladyv
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Post by ladyv on Jun 24, 2020 16:40:58 GMT -5
Indigo, I found a triangle in the first stanza. Here’s how:
Left justify it.
Draw lines between first and last letters to spell IDEA (there are many more ‘idea’s in the poem besides the four corners one, and they are all in the first stanza). Use the I in the first line of the poem, too, for some of them (even though it’s the 2nd word) to heighten the effect. You can use, for example, the I in the beginning of the 3rd line, the D at the end of the 2nd line, the E at the end of the 1st line, and the A at the start of the 1st line. That’s how you can get a bunch of lines and ‘idea’s.
See? At the end of the stanza is a perfect triangle.
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annie
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Post by annie on Jun 24, 2020 16:51:35 GMT -5
Indigo - LAMAR? There is i recall a warm springs or such near there.
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Post by indigojones on Jun 24, 2020 22:37:34 GMT -5
Hi, did any of you guys try the 40 degrees projection into the'Colorado'map? If so did you hit the tiny circle/ring under 'Colorado Springs'? If so I believe this was the elusive first clue, which is "Where warm waters halt" if you don't have this you don't have anything" Forrest said. The reason I believe this is "where warm waters halt" I will try to explain. We need to think of RED and BLUE as being both 'HOT' and 'COLD'. 'Colorado means RED which is 'HOT' if it is found by using a projection of 'BLUE' which is 'COLD' it reveals 'WARM' because HOT and COLD coming together make it so, does it not. Seems kinda logical to me, what about you guys? This is purely my opinion,and it is where you begin to form your PRISM from. Next find "And take it in the canyon down" and finally your "Put in below the home of Brown" Remember you are forming a 'PRISM'shape/triangle on this map. indigo
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Post by indigojones on Jun 25, 2020 1:01:12 GMT -5
You’re right. But several of us did in fact take a systematic approach to solving the poem. Just read some of Jeff’s post to get an idea what I’m talking about. Forrest told us to nail down WWWH first and to look at the big picture. He hinted that searchers were overlooking what was right in front of them. What was it then? What were we overlooking that was right in front of us? Did we get to NFBTFTW then we “walk” (ed) right by the location because we overlooked this location? What’s the big picture? Is it the world? Do we look for warm water seas? The entirety of the Rockies? Do we look for a triple divide point? Do we look at the poem as a whole? Use the poem as a map? Do we set up the letters in the poem as a grid system? I tried all of the above. Does that mean I was not taking a systematic approach? IMO, we didn’t understand the crux of poem to extract the precise location coordinates from NFBTFTW. Hi sangre, yes I take your point, some did try to use a system that's correct. I maintain the vast majority of searchers did not though. The stumbling block for those who had the first two clues missed it by trying to make sense of "Not far, but too far to walk" assuming it was a location, because it wasn't. It was easy to establish this if you knew what you had to create on the map, namely a Prism/triangle. Four locations would not create a triangle. What 'NFBTFTW' showed was revealed in the map as you draw on it, it was to show you that the distance between the first two locations was not far when looked at on the map, in inches of measurement say, but you would not want to have to walk it in reality. You then move on to the final clue in stanza 2, "Put in below the home of Brown" if you knew you were to create a prism on the map this would be the third geographic location that forms it. To answer your question about the big picture I believe that was a hint to 'Eric Sloanes' big picture, the mural called 'Earth Flight Environment' his most famous work, it has a rainbow in it. My solution was based on the word that was key that word was 'Rainbow'. indigo |
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Jul 9, 2020 16:11:49 GMT -5
Indigojones Yes i agree, different from many riddles. Not knowing where to start is IMO what makes everyone come up with such diverse search areas. Annoying but he said it would be difficult. And it was. I am not sure however about bringing architectural drawing skills would be necessary. IMO Felt like an architect relates to the method of ‘building’ each clue. I like your thinking. My solve is possibly even in the wrong state, i asked someone to check over my solve once. They couldn’t be convinced- even though i was 99% certain, and many of the anagrams fitted. Hi annie and all. If I told you that the word that is key was 'Rainbow' would you believe me? maybe not but hear me out before you condemn ok? Forrest did offer some advice when he said 'simplify' Prior to the beginning of the poem he mentions: "So I wrote a poem containing 9 clues which if followed precisely will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure" notice he mentions rainbow first. So to simplify which of the four states would you choose to begin your search in if you truly believed the rainbow was important? I am guessing you would choose 'COLORADO' because it has color in it. We are simplifying don't forget, so why not. 'ISAAC NEWTON' conducted experiments in light using a prism, you would need 3 geographic location clues to form one on a map, his initials are 'IN' used often in the poem. However to create one on the map you would need to know where to start and find the elusive first clue. This is where rainbow science holds the key. There are two known colors in the rainbow which have degrees of angle attached to them, RED is 42 degrees and relates to the chest weight, and BLUE is 40 degrees. You can recreate this if you go and Google 'COLORADO' map which presents it without any curvature. In the poem are the words 'warm' and 'cold' which deal with temperature also measured in degrees, on faucets RED is HOT and BLUE is COLD' yes? Verse 6 line 2 of the poem says: "Your effort will be worth the cold" so return to the degrees of angle of rainbow colors and you should now know you need to use the 'COLD' BLUE angle of 40 degrees, so use this in your effort. COLORADO map is one of only two real box states, the other is Wyoming. So if we are to use 40 degrees of angle to get to the interior of Colorado where do we start from? Answer: one of the four corners, the one that get a result is the South East one. Place a protractor center here and project 40 degrees into the map. This is the precision you need to find the elusive first clue, go ahead, try it yourself it will take you to WHERE WARM WATERS HALT. This is the beginning of your search. Of course I have to say IMO. Let me know how you get on. indigo. Hi Indigo, its very imaginative and I love it. You asked for some feedback elsewhere and I'll start with you post above.
Using "the end of my rainbow" and relating that to Colorado, given that rainbows are colorful, is wonderful. That being said, however, there are lots of geographic names that are "colorful." Why choose Colorado? Why not "Grand Prismatic Spring" in Yellowstone, to name but one of many? Is there an indication in TTOTC or elsewhere to narrow the possibilities to state names from all geographic names? If Fenn created a good puzzle, which we only have to assume at this point, in my opinion he would need to ensure in some way that his players were supposed to focus on a particular narrowed class of geographic names to successfully complete this first step.
I assume your rainbow science is correct, and a quick Google search makes it seem like it is correct. There are lots of physical properties of rainbows. It sounds like you chose angles of dispersion because of Fenn's multiple uses of a very common preposition in English--"in"--and how that happens to be the initials for Isaac Newton. This step is problematic to me. Why not focus on "it" or "and" or other repeated poem words? Fenn would have to ensure that we tune ourselves in to rainbow angles and this would be a very ambiguous way of doing that. Are there other indicators in Fenn's writings that point us to Isaac Newton or prisms? The shot down story in My War for Me comes to mind, as one example.
From an elegant puzzle construction perspective, the 42 degrees and 42 pounds confirmer, while not critical to your solution, is difficult to swallow without the 40 degree piece also having some meaning. Do you have a "confirmer" for the number 40?
Why limit ourselves to box-like state? Surely we can draw a line at an angle from the corner of non-box-like states? Why choose a particular corner? Why not choose some other point along the edge? Why are we even doing this at all? Is there an indication anywhere in his writings that this is ever something he would want us to do? He doesn't need to provide any guidance, but if we assume he created an elegant puzzle I would expect him to provide something that would point us in this direction. Otherwise we're just guessing among umpteen variations...a monkey pounding away at a typewriter that will eventually, given enough time, compose some lines of Shakespeare.
Perhaps you have further reasons for going in the direction you did. Please note these are supposed to be constructive comments, I'm not being maliciously argumentative.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 19:51:12 GMT -5
Hi all, you know what amazed me most about the way people approached this treasure hunt?, it was the lack of using any system.
Sounds a little condescending, and that doesn't speak for me, I put more thought and process into this than many people did. My team had a combined 18 years of work on it. Out of those 18 years, only 3 were a collaboration and we believe we found it but did not make it there in time so we lost. I think you can say "many people lacked a system", but definately not most or all people.
Not only was a LOT of effort expended, but I shared a TON of the work across 78 videos and numerous posts here and on Dal's since 2015. One other teammate also shared info since 2013.
The problem was nobody would listen, most people are lazy and feel that someone will just hand them a treasure chest.
Oh, there is more than one key. One of the keys is "treasures"
Note that at no time did he limit the clues to the four states, only the chest itself. A clue could be in Vietnam.
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Post by indigojones on Jul 10, 2020 9:32:32 GMT -5
Hi annie and all. If I told you that the word that is key was 'Rainbow' would you believe me? maybe not but hear me out before you condemn ok? Forrest did offer some advice when he said 'simplify' Prior to the beginning of the poem he mentions: "So I wrote a poem containing 9 clues which if followed precisely will lead to the end of my rainbow and the treasure" notice he mentions rainbow first. So to simplify which of the four states would you choose to begin your search in if you truly believed the rainbow was important? I am guessing you would choose 'COLORADO' because it has color in it. We are simplifying don't forget, so why not. 'ISAAC NEWTON' conducted experiments in light using a prism, you would need 3 geographic location clues to form one on a map, his initials are 'IN' used often in the poem. However to create one on the map you would need to know where to start and find the elusive first clue. This is where rainbow science holds the key. There are two known colors in the rainbow which have degrees of angle attached to them, RED is 42 degrees and relates to the chest weight, and BLUE is 40 degrees. You can recreate this if you go and Google 'COLORADO' map which presents it without any curvature. In the poem are the words 'warm' and 'cold' which deal with temperature also measured in degrees, on faucets RED is HOT and BLUE is COLD' yes? Verse 6 line 2 of the poem says: "Your effort will be worth the cold" so return to the degrees of angle of rainbow colors and you should now know you need to use the 'COLD' BLUE angle of 40 degrees, so use this in your effort. COLORADO map is one of only two real box states, the other is Wyoming. So if we are to use 40 degrees of angle to get to the interior of Colorado where do we start from? Answer: one of the four corners, the one that get a result is the South East one. Place a protractor center here and project 40 degrees into the map. This is the precision you need to find the elusive first clue, go ahead, try it yourself it will take you to WHERE WARM WATERS HALT. This is the beginning of your search. Of course I have to say IMO. Let me know how you get on. indigo. Hi Indigo, its very imaginative and I love it. You asked for some feedback elsewhere and I'll start with you post above.
Using "the end of my rainbow" and relating that to Colorado, given that rainbows are colorful, is wonderful. That being said, however, there are lots of geographic names that are "colorful." Why choose Colorado? Why not "Grand Prismatic Spring" in Yellowstone, to name but one of many? Is there an indication in TTOTC or elsewhere to narrow the possibilities to state names from all geographic names? If Fenn created a good puzzle, which we only have to assume at this point, in my opinion he would need to ensure in some way that his players were supposed to focus on a particular narrowed class of geographic names to successfully complete this first step.
I assume your rainbow science is correct, and a quick Google search makes it seem like it is correct. There are lots of physical properties of rainbows. It sounds like you chose angles of dispersion because of Fenn's multiple uses of a very common preposition in English--"in"--and how that happens to be the initials for Isaac Newton. This step is problematic to me. Why not focus on "it" or "and" or other repeated poem words? Fenn would have to ensure that we tune ourselves in to rainbow angles and this would be a very ambiguous way of doing that. Are there other indicators in Fenn's writings that point us to Isaac Newton or prisms? The shot down story in My War for Me comes to mind, as one example.
From an elegant puzzle construction perspective, the 42 degrees and 42 pounds confirmer, while not critical to your solution, is difficult to swallow without the 40 degree piece also having some meaning. Do you have a "confirmer" for the number 40?
Why limit ourselves to box-like state? Surely we can draw a line at an angle from the corner of non-box-like states? Why choose a particular corner? Why not choose some other point along the edge? Why are we even doing this at all? Is there an indication anywhere in his writings that this is ever something he would want us to do? He doesn't need to provide any guidance, but if we assume he created an elegant puzzle I would expect him to provide something that would point us in this direction. Otherwise we're just guessing among umpteen variations...a monkey pounding away at a typewriter that will eventually, given enough time, compose some lines of Shakespeare.
Perhaps you have further reasons for going in the direction you did. Please note these are supposed to be constructive comments, I'm not being maliciously argumentative.
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Post by indigojones on Jul 10, 2020 10:05:29 GMT -5
Hi jeff, thanks for your thoughts. I cannot prove the 40 degrees from the poem or elsewhere except to say that all you would need to find is the RED angle as BLUE gets automatically included when you research it, and linking it to water temperatures is cut and dried for me. Another big reason for it to be the BLUE angle you require appears in 'Teachers with Ropes' where Forrest blatantly shows us by use of another color in the text 'DO NOT TOUCH' RED that is a big clue to me, in other words use BLUE.
The remarks about where Forrest left his car in Northern Arizona University car park and the later changed version to Denver Museum of Nature and Science car park was another outside of the book clue. Find both on the maps and pin them using Google Maps.
You will see that 40 degrees of angle links the two and passes through 'Four Corners Monument' a clue to corners. Only two of our states feature in 'Four Corners Monument' New Mexico and Colorado, hence my use of Colorado linked to the rainbow. To me there is plenty in what he has given us to point us in the right direction. Once you embark upon the geometry course it is self driving if you know you need to construct a prism. To further this discussion jeff what about my geometry taking me directly to Adelaide and a cistern, only to find that Forrest had used the word Cistern on Page 106 which is planted there in the text for you to understand if you arrive at one. The blaze was in full view all the time and he links it to 'ideas and opportunities', to me it confirms that you are expected to find a cistern at the end.
indigo
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Post by jdiggins on Jul 10, 2020 10:33:05 GMT -5
Do you have a "confirmer" for the number 40?
Yes.
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Post by indigojones on Jul 10, 2020 11:06:19 GMT -5
Go for it jdiggins
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Post by indigojones on Jul 11, 2020 0:03:03 GMT -5
Hi jeff, thanks for your thoughts. I cannot prove the 40 degrees from the poem or elsewhere except to say that all you would need to find is the RED angle as BLUE gets automatically included when you research it, and linking it to water temperatures is cut and dried for me. Another big reason for it to be the BLUE angle you require appears in 'Teachers with Ropes' where Forrest blatantly shows us by use of another color in the text 'DO NOT TOUCH' RED that is a big clue to me, in other words use BLUE. The remarks about where Forrest left his car in Northern Arizona University car park and the later changed version to Denver Museum of Nature and Science car park was another outside of the book clue. Find both on the maps and pin them using Google Maps. You will see that 40 degrees of angle links the two and passes through 'Four Corners Monument' a clue to corners. Only two of our states feature in 'Four Corners Monument' New Mexico and Colorado, hence my use of Colorado linked to the rainbow. To me there is plenty in what he has given us to point us in the right direction. Once you embark upon the geometry course it is self driving if you know you need to construct a prism. To further this discussion jeff what about my geometry taking me directly to Adelaide and a cistern, only to find that Forrest had used the word Cistern on Page 106 which is planted there in the text for you to understand if you arrive at one. The blaze was in full view all the time and he links it to 'ideas and opportunities', to me it confirms that you are expected to find a cistern at the end. indigo
I first got into treasure hunting with the advent of 'Masquerade' and have worked on these kind of hunts since then. My belief has been to look for things that connect. Like a lot of these puzzles if you don't find the end of the string that leads you into them you can be lost forever. The mind cannot easily cleanse itself of what it has at first fallen upon, it is hard to discard it and throw your thoughts out and start again. Of course that applies to me also but it does seem very logical. A big plus is that the location is very accessible and hard to believe it as dangerous, I have posted photos of the site to prove this. My belief is that you needed to dig in the center of the cistern to unearth the Bracelet that contained confirmation as to where the chest was waiting. The circle would be easy to lead you to in a puzzle whereas a tree in a pine forest would not be.
indigo
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Post by kenintexas on Jul 12, 2020 5:27:18 GMT -5
Hi all, you know what amazed me most about the way people approached this treasure hunt?, it was the lack of using any system ... indigo I would agree with you on your point that searchers generally did not use any "system". There was a tendency to pick RANDOM factoids from TTOTC or from Forrest's interviews or some other resource to come up with a solution, because these searchers never could make heads or tails of the poem. They still can't. Another problematic approach was to latch on either to high-profile message board posters and use variations of their approaches (which usually amounted to group-approved approaches), or to the approaches of high-profile YouTubers searching less for the chest than for their 15 minutes of fame. The false assumption here was that people who posted a lot on message boards or attracted a wide following on YouTube knew more than searchers who never or rarely commented. I think there was indeed a system, specifically a methodology, that one could use, and was valid from the poem's first line to the last line. The method was not based on "the key word" or any specific factoid (like "omegas" or "rainbows", or "astronomy" or a thousand other RANDOM ideas mentioned through the years). The methodology was simple and straightforward, but required some hard work. It was holistic and internally consistent. And it had nothing to do with anagrams or manipulating rows or columns in the poem. And the method did not require any resources outside the poem to solve. The method led from a general area to a very specific spot. And while separate words and phrases that searches constantly dwelled on (like "blaze", "HOB", "in the wood", "water high") were not misleading or incorrect, it was the generally ignored parts of the poem that allowed this methodology to reveal specific, precise geographic directions that would get searcher to the hiding spot. The poem's methodology also provided SEPARATE CONFIRMATION of the entire trek. Of all the hundreds or thousands of verbal comments Forrest made through the years, the one that helped me the most and was the basis for this methodology was his comment (paraphrasing here) >>> "there are a few words in the poem that are not helpful in finding the chest... but it is risky to discount any of them." I don't think searchers ever took this Forrest Fenn comment seriously. Ken (in Texas) |
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Post by goldilocks on Jul 12, 2020 8:54:59 GMT -5
Hi all, you know what amazed me most about the way people approached this treasure hunt?, it was the lack of using any system ... indigo I would agree with you on your point that searchers generally did not use any "system". There was a tendency to pick RANDOM factoids from TTOTC or from Forrest's interviews or some other resource to come up with a solution, because these searchers never could make heads or tails of the poem. They still can't. Another problematic approach was to latch on either to high-profile message board posters and use variations of their approaches (which usually amounted to group-approved approaches), or to the approaches of high-profile YouTubers searching less for the chest than for their 15 minutes of fame. The false assumption here was that people who posted a lot on message boards or attracted a wide following on YouTube knew more than searchers who never or rarely commented. I think there was indeed a system, specifically a methodology, that one could use, and was valid from the poem's first line to the last line. The method was not based on "the key word" or any specific factoid (like "omegas" or "rainbows", or "astronomy" or a thousand other RANDOM ideas mentioned through the years). The methodology was simple and straightforward, but required some hard work. It was holistic and internally consistent. And it had nothing to do with anagrams or manipulating rows or columns in the poem. And the method did not require any resources outside the poem to solve. The method led from a general area to a very specific spot. And while separate words and phrases that searches constantly dwelled on (like "blaze", "HOB", "in the wood", "water high") were not misleading or incorrect, it was the generally ignored parts of the poem that allowed this methodology to reveal specific, precise geographic directions that would get searcher to the hiding spot. The poem's methodology also provided SEPARATE CONFIRMATION of the entire trek. Of all the hundreds or thousands of verbal comments Forrest made through the years, the one that helped me the most and was the basis for this methodology was his comment (paraphrasing here) >>> "there are a few words in the poem that are not helpful in finding the chest... but it is risky to discount any of them." I don't think searchers ever took this Forrest Fenn comment seriously. Ken (in Texas) Can't wait until Zap wakes up and asks you if you are THE Ken from Texas! |
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