The idea of Mirror images and Reflections

[searcher1991]

Please bare with me because this will be pretty long.

I have an idea that I think could be really important for the master riddle, but I've hit a roadblock with it and could use help or some other eyes on it.

So on illustration #5 there is a newspaper with a 4x4 grid. Obviously there's also a 4x4 grid in Illustration #3 and then #12. I saw someone online say that if you flip the 4x4 grid in the newspaper around and match it with every square on illustration #12, they all add up to 19. I went and did this and every corresponding square adds up to 19.

The person online thought that this meant that 19 was important, but I thought something completely different. I thought this played into the idea of mirror images being important and the 4x4 grid (like the one in the picture I sent you) being important. I also thought about the C Masquerade Hint - Tnihreuqsam C. There's also a lot of clues about reflections, the eye images, and there's the compasses that are clearly backwards unless looked at in a mirror. Tying this all together, I wondered if the illustrations in the book are supposed to mirror each other.

So there's sixteen illustrations, if they were going to mirror each other they would go #1 with #16, #2 with #15, #3 with #14, and so on. Everything that adds up to 17 basically.. This ties into the 4x4 grids from the newspaper and the calendar all adding up to 19. It also ties into the reflection and things like that.

So I went and looked for a confirmer and I found that the newspaper with the man is #5 and the calendar with the woman is #12. These are the illustrations that would mirror each other based on my idea. Then I went and looked and noticed a lot of similarities between the mirrored images.

#1 and #16, Fandango kind of by himself.
#2 and #15. Only ones with dolphins
#3 and #14 nothing great here
#4 and #13 The words around the borders can all describe Cadillac Mountain. Illustration #13 is the ride up to Cadillac and the words around #4 talk about Double back, no quick escape, and crisss cross. That describes the mountain perfectly because there's only one road up Cadilliac (was there last year) so you have to double back down that road and no quick escape.
#5 and #12 - besides for there being the squares, you also have her drink red rose tea and him having a red rose and drinking tea. Plenty of other ones here as well.
#6 and # 11 - Nothing great here except for the color scheme, and the theme of eyes reflecting. I also wonder if you're supposed to fold illustration #6 over the right page of #11. It certainly creates an interesting image if you do.
#7 and #10 - Two men by themselves. Also you have 64 different colored pattern rectangles and 64 different Red triangles in the border.
#8 and #9 His orange book (that's supposed to be important. Says in the lake of the woods. The fairies are around a lake in the woods. I wonder if this is a hint that maybe Fandango never actually left those fairies? Maybe they tricked him and he was still in the lake in the woods and they stole his gift while he thought he was seeing Quinn? That's just a side thought that would make it seem like a lake in the woods is where final key is located. This could be hinted at by Quinn saying everything's in your imagination.

There's a lot there that makes me think this idea is definitely somehow involved. Below, I've put how I think it could be involved but I've hit a roadblock here.

How do I think it's used? I was wondering if you use the border words on one page in connection with the words around it's "mirrored" page to create a master riddle. If you look at illustration #3, there's an upside down E connected to a W and then a regular N connected to an upside down S. So I thought maybe the words on the top of the borders were supposed to equal North, then the right would be East, Bottom South, and then Left West? Like a compass? If that's how to look at it then this ENSW with the fishes would mean to connect regular North (first 8 pages) with reflected south and then regular West with reflected East.

So I tried plugging in the Top words on the first 8 illustrations with the bottom words on the back 8. It sort of flows a little bit, but this is where I'm kind of stumped. If I miss a word, it's because I'm sort of typing from memory. So here's how it would sound if you use the top/bottom or the North - Reflected South in text form.

Fandango Forever Held, Deep Down a Tail to tell
Hidden Away, Upside Down, Criss Cross Yakity Yak Cadillac Mack
One of four tea for two, Forever held all eyes in the fire
North West, Step inside Dusk to dawk, Spirits Speak.


Then would you continue with the regular West/left and reflect right/East? This is where I'm stuck. I definitely think the reflect or mirror illustrations idea is used, but I can't quite figure out the final way to use it. I think it's something similar to what I started above and then you go down and letters spell something or maybe words will spell something out. Like the first words of each line in my example could be Fandango Hidden One North. I've tried so many combinations, but can't get anything that makes great sense yet.

I think the way to use the mirrored illustrations idea will be found through solving some of the other smaller riddles.

Please let me know if you think this is a good lead and whether you can use anything else to piece the final parts together? I'll keep working on it when I can.

[pumalion]

Jul 10, 2020 8:29:13 GMT -5 searcher1991 said:

If you look at illustration #3, there's an upside down E connected to a W and then a regular N connected to an upside down S. So I thought maybe the words on the top of the borders were supposed to equal North, then the right would be East, Bottom South, and then Left West? Like a compass? If that's how to look at it then this ENSW with the fishes would mean to connect regular North (first 8 pages) with reflected south and then regular West with reflected East.

Finding a meaningful way to apply the "reflection" hints is a good strategy. Experimenting with different approaches is the best way I can think of to find a meaningful solution.

It sounds as if you are calling the "key mosaic" on p. 11 "illustration #3." I think you are referring to the weathervane part of the image as your source for the clues about reflection. This image would not be one I would look to for solving the "reflection" hint, as I believe all of the letters on the weathervane are in their correct orientation if a person were to look at the weathervane from one fixed position.

If you read the text that goes with the lobsterman image, there are hints that the lobsterman IS a weathervane. He swings around and the illustration shows him pointing to the word "north." He verbally tells the fox to go "down East," however. This is a traditional term for a section of the coast of Maine, so it's not a clear instruction in terms of charting a course.

In the context of the book, I think it also helps to point out that Northwest and Southeast harbors on MDI are not really located in northwestern or southeastern places, unless you are at the mouth of Somes Sound.

The compass on the Harley Quinn page might be a better place to look for hints about reflection, if you are trying to come up with an image to use as a guide for a reflection strategy.

I am very interested in finding a key to what I call the "wacky compass" hints in the book. Your reflection idea might be a new way of approaching the clues. Good luck!

[searcher1991]

Jul 10, 2020 10:26:07 GMT -5 pumalion said:

Jul 10, 2020 8:29:13 GMT -5 searcher1991 said:

If you look at illustration #3, there's an upside down E connected to a W and then a regular N connected to an upside down S. So I thought maybe the words on the top of the borders were supposed to equal North, then the right would be East, Bottom South, and then Left West? Like a compass? If that's how to look at it then this ENSW with the fishes would mean to connect regular North (first 8 pages) with reflected south and then regular West with reflected East.

Finding a meaningful way to apply the "reflection" hints is a good strategy. Experimenting with different approaches is the best way I can think of to find a meaningful solution.

It sounds as if you are calling the "key mosaic" on p. 11 "illustration #3." I think you are referring to the weathervane part of the image as your source for the clues about reflection. This image would not be one I would look to for solving the "reflection" hint, as I believe all of the letters on the weathervane are in their correct orientation if a person were to look at the weathervane from one fixed position.

If you read the text that goes with the lobsterman image, there are hints that the lobsterman IS a weathervane. He swings around and the illustration shows him pointing to the word "north." He verbally tells the fox to go "down East," however. This is a traditional term for a section of the coast of Maine, so it's not a clear instruction in terms of charting a course.

In the context of the book, I think it also helps to point out that Northwest and Southeast harbors on MDI are not really located in northwestern or southeastern places, unless you are at the mouth of Somes Sound.

The compass on the Harley Quinn page might be a better place to look for hints about reflection, if you are trying to come up with an image to use as a guide for a reflection strategy.

I am very interested in finding a key to what I call the "wacky compass" hints in the book. Your reflection idea might be a new way of approaching the clues. Good luck!

[.




Thanks for the response. My main confirmer for my reflection or mirror images comes from the old man illustration and the woman drinking tea illustration. Her 4x4 grid matches up with the one in his newspaper. Every corresponding square adds up to the number 19. There’s 16 illustrations making me thinking we’re supposed to use a similar approach. #1 with #16 #2 with #15 and so on. So anything adding up to 17 like the squares added up to 19.

This is confirmed by the reflection hints, the upside down compass, and the fact that the old man and the woman drinking tea are on page #5 and #12, which add up to #17, creating that same mirror image idea.

[Deleted]

So — early on, I vaguely noticed the reflection and the compass on Quinn's page.

It made me think the shadow of the plump bob is pointing to an area that is the "reflection" of the Jordan Pond POI. I took the map in the back and folded in half lengthwise to see if the "reflection" of the POI lined up with where he's pointing on the map. To take it one step further, I folded the map in half in the other direction and marked where the spot was. I can't remember off the top of my head but I think doing this put the spot Echo Lake.

But I didn't have enough clues (such as the list you made and all the stuff you put together) to support this idea.

Seeing this — I now wonder if I was onto something very early on but doubted myself and dismissed it.

Cool stuff.

[Deleted]

Jul 10, 2020 12:51:14 GMT -5 @stargazer said:

So — early on, I vaguely noticed the reflection and the compass on Quinn's page.

It made me think the shadow of the plump bob is pointing to an area that is the "reflection" of the Jordan Pond POI. I took the map in the back and folded in half lengthwise to see if the "reflection" of the POI lined up with where he's pointing on the map. To take it one step further, I folded the map in half in the other direction and marked where the spot was. I can't remember off the top of my head but I think doing this put the spot Echo Lake.

But I didn't have enough clues (such as the list you made and all the stuff you put together) to support this idea.

Seeing this — I now wonder if I was onto something very early on but doubted myself and dismissed it.

Cool stuff.

After digging out my map from the book (my book fell apart a long time ago 🤷🏼‍♀️) I double-checked and found that it wasn’t the Jordan Pond POI that I did the paper folding with it was the one southwest of it.

In an interesting twist, if you fold the map short sides together then unfold it, the crease goes right through the Jordan Pond POI.

Curiouser and curiouser...

[thisjustin]

Searcher1991 - interesting thoughts and thanks for sharing. I've played with reflections a lot but never thought about applying it via illustration 1/16, 2/15 etc. like you did. I'll have to ponder this a bit more. Many have talked about using illustrations in pairs ("two together") with the Old Lady and Old Fop being the most obvious thanks to the number squares and the rose connections. Whether every illustration is paired or is even critical to the solve/riddle is an open question. Pairing the dolphin illustrations certainly lends some credence to your approach though.

And as eos points out, the C Masquerade Hint strongly suggests that reflections (and maybe folds) are important.

[thisjustin]

Jul 10, 2020 8:29:13 GMT -5 searcher1991 said:

So there's sixteen illustrations, if they were going to mirror each other they would go #1 with #16, #2 with #15, #3 with #14, and so on. Everything that adds up to 17 basically.. This ties into the 4x4 grids from the newspaper and the calendar all adding up to 19.

According to the page numbers, the cover of the book is page 1.  Perhaps that's also illustration 1.  There are two illustrations that span two pages (pgs 34/35 and pgs 44/45).  If you count each of those pages as a separate illustration and assume the cover is illustration 1, then there are 19 illustrations matching the 19's generated by the number grids.

[thisjustin]

Jul 10, 2020 8:29:13 GMT -5 searcher1991 said:

#6 and # 11 - Nothing great here except for the color scheme, and the theme of eyes reflecting. I also wonder if you're supposed to fold illustration #6 over the right page of #11. It certainly creates an interesting image if you do.

Curious as to how you are folding page 19 over page 35 to get the "interesting image."  Nothing really stands out to me, but perhaps I am folding it differently than you.

[searcher1991]

Jul 18, 2020 13:35:02 GMT -5 thisjustin said:

Jul 10, 2020 8:29:13 GMT -5 searcher1991 said:

So there's sixteen illustrations, if they were going to mirror each other they would go #1 with #16, #2 with #15, #3 with #14, and so on. Everything that adds up to 17 basically.. This ties into the 4x4 grids from the newspaper and the calendar all adding up to 19.

According to the page numbers, the cover of the book is page 1.  Perhaps that's also illustration 1.  There are two illustrations that span two pages (pgs 34/35 and pgs 44/45).  If you count each of those pages as a separate illustration and assume the cover is illustration 1, then there are 19 illustrations matching the 19's generated by the number grids.

Hey, thanks for looking into this. I wondered about whether I should count those two page illustrations as one or two. The reason I still did one for each of them was because they still only have the four borders. Also, if those were each two it would have screwed up my idea of creating a mirror image of 1 with 16, 2 w 15, etc. I say it would have screwed that up because clearly the old man and the woman drinking tea go together but if you do make the fire and the Cadillac mountain two illustrations instead of one, then they are no longer mirrored together they would be 5 and 12 still but now the ones adding up to 19 would mirrored.


I also wondered if maybe the cover is illustration #1 and the map as 18. That would add up to the 19 as well. Still trying to figure out how to use the bordered words on mirrored pages to create a master riddle but it’s possible my idea is completely wrong or I need to apply something else.

[thisjustin]

Jul 21, 2020 10:15:30 GMT -5 searcher1991 said:

if those were each two it would have screwed up my idea of creating a mirror image of 1 with 16, 2 w 15, etc. I say it would have screwed that up because clearly the old man and the woman drinking tea go together

True. Try this instead. Count the cover as illustration #1, the 34/35 and 44/45 illustrations as a single illustration, but include the map and back cover (compass rose) illustrations. You get 19 illustrations, Old Fop is #6 and Old Lady is #13 = 19.

[searcher1991]

Jul 21, 2020 13:23:43 GMT -5 thisjustin said:

Jul 21, 2020 10:15:30 GMT -5 searcher1991 said:

if those were each two it would have screwed up my idea of creating a mirror image of 1 with 16, 2 w 15, etc. I say it would have screwed that up because clearly the old man and the woman drinking tea go together

True. Try this instead. Count the cover as illustration #1, the 34/35 and 44/45 illustrations as a single illustration, but include the map and back cover (compass rose) illustrations. You get 19 illustrations, Old Fop is #6 and Old Lady is #13 = 19.

I will work on this more next week. I really do feel like we need to create a paragraph of text using like the top words from one border and the bottom words from a corresponding border and so on. I think the exact pattern for how to do this will come from other riddles and hints within the book. If I find anything that might be useful I’ll update.