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Post by astree on Jun 6, 2017 12:15:54 GMT -5
When the group woke in the morning, they were getting a slow start.
It seems the conversation with Lane, about how he knew where to go, took place before they started driving (?). After Lane announced the destination, Nels comments that, “of course, given where we were, it would have been a fair guess.” They were in the wilderness, and someplace 55 miles away was a fair guess? Is that how others read this?
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Post by thetictocman on Jun 6, 2017 12:46:46 GMT -5
That's my take. Wherever they are, something 55 miles away was a place that the area is known for. Maybe a large city, an attraction, or something that when someone mentions the region, this place pops into most peoples minds.
Like if we were in the Rockies in Colorado, and we were 55 miles from Aspen, Aspen would be a fair guess for just about anyone as to a place we might be going.
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toppop
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Post by toppop on Jun 6, 2017 14:35:39 GMT -5
I wonder if Quarry Girl got to the 'treasure hill' by the same path, or did she get to it by a shorter path. And how did they return, did they all walk all the way back to the bus, or catch a taxi or a bus , lol
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Post by astree on Jun 6, 2017 14:57:20 GMT -5
and I don't remember reading one sentence about the return trip home after they found the treasure. I thought that was a little interesting
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Post by zaphod73491 on Jun 6, 2017 18:18:14 GMT -5
and I don't remember reading one sentence about the return trip home after they found the treasure. I thought that was a little interesting Astree: in my opinion, it's because they ended their journey pretty much where they started. I know we're somewhat tricked into believing that the Butterscotch-5 end up almost 400 miles from where they started, but if you pay close attention, there are a couple subtle clues that they aren't necessarily driving further and further from where they started. Only once do we get a clear-cut indication of their driving direction: on Day 3 (page 100) it's a 92-mile trip northward from the diner to where they go canoeing. I think many people just assume from this that they're whole journey is therefore northward. But I think the first leg is actually southward (anywhere from SW to SE) and here's why. On page 23 we learn it's 80 miles to the first stop. On page 32, Pete makes a point of the fact that when they park on the side of the road next to a "huge" sidewalk not far from their intended dinner spot, they want to deploy the (broken) awning to shade themselves from the sun. It's mid to late afternoon, so the sun is in the southwest, and therefore Winnie the Beast's nose is facing somewhere between SSW and east, otherwise the awning would do them no good. So unless they did a U-turn prior to parking, they couldn't have been driving north on that leg. They could have been driving east, but I think it's more likely it was southeast or south. Much later in the story on page 127, they have a dawn departure on day 5 and are 114 miles from their destination. The rental bike shop along the river is 45 miles NORTH of their destination, so clearly their final leg is not northward -- no one would overshoot their destination by 45 miles just to get in a bike ride! They're clearly driving south, or mostly south, otherwise the bike shop is way out of their way. When they're done biking (after an 11-mile ride), they're still 55 miles north of the treasure. So evidently their bike ride took them in a direction further from the treasure (by 10 miles) than was the bike shop. The only leg of the journey about which we have no directional clues is the 100-mile drive to the old dining car restaurant on day 2. But for simplicity, suppose it was northward, and the first 80-mile leg was due southward. Where would that put them? 80 miles south, 100 miles north, 92 miles north, (114-45)=69 miles south, 11 miles north (bike), 55 miles south Put it all together, and they're 1 mile south of where they started. Allow for some rounding error on distances, and you can see that a good argument can be made that the starting and ending cities are one and the same.
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troye
New Member
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Post by troye on Jun 6, 2017 19:52:40 GMT -5
Based on the reply of "So that's why you had us go another forty-five miles further."
I would say that they did overshoot their destination for the bike ride.
My thought is that they went North 45 miles past the destination then biked another 11 miles North to get the rough distance of 55 miles from their destination.
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Post by zaphod73491 on Jun 6, 2017 23:52:26 GMT -5
Wow, Troye -- that's a big OOPS on my part if I missed that line! I've read the book at least 3 times and if that line is in there, I somehow glossed right over it every time. I'll pull out the book to confirm, but I'm sure you must be right.
Nevertheless, I still think they started their journey heading in a southerly direction; perhaps they went south-south-north-north?
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troye
New Member
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Post by troye on Jun 7, 2017 0:04:15 GMT -5
It's in the part where they are telling him all about how they created the clues and the hunt.
I think that if you can follow their route to the location, the direction and miles will play a key part of getting you there.
The going back to the beginning is something I hadn't thought of before. It is something that I feel is true of Fenn's treasure also.
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Post by astree on Jun 7, 2017 5:36:32 GMT -5
and I don't remember reading one sentence about the return trip home after they found the treasure. I thought that was a little interesting Astree: in my opinion, it's because they ended their journey pretty much where they started. I know we're somewhat tricked into believing that the Butterscotch-5 end up almost 400 miles from where they started, but if you pay close attention, there are a couple subtle clues that they aren't necessarily driving further and further from where they started. Only once do we get a clear-cut indication of their driving direction: on Day 3 (page 100) it's a 92-mile trip northward from the diner to where they go canoeing. I think many people just assume from this that they're whole journey is therefore northward. But I think the first leg is actually southward (anywhere from SW to SE) and here's why. On page 23 we learn it's 80 miles to the first stop. On page 32, Pete makes a point of the fact that when they park on the side of the road next to a "huge" sidewalk not far from their intended dinner spot, they want to deploy the (broken) awning to shade themselves from the sun. It's mid to late afternoon, so the sun is in the southwest, and therefore Winnie the Beast's nose is facing somewhere between SSW and east, otherwise the awning would do them no good. So unless they did a U-turn prior to parking, they couldn't have been driving north on that leg. They could have been driving east, but I think it's more likely it was southeast or south. Much later in the story on page 127, they have a dawn departure on day 5 and are 114 miles from their destination. The rental bike shop along the river is 45 miles NORTH of their destination, so clearly their final leg is not northward -- no one would overshoot their destination by 45 miles just to get in a bike ride! They're clearly driving south, or mostly south, otherwise the bike shop is way out of their way. When they're done biking (after an 11-mile ride), they're still 55 miles north of the treasure. So evidently their bike ride took them in a direction further from the treasure (by 10 miles) than was the bike shop. The only leg of the journey about which we have no directional clues is the 100-mile drive to the old dining car restaurant on day 2. But for simplicity, suppose it was northward, and the first 80-mile leg was due southward. Where would that put them? 80 miles south, 100 miles north, 92 miles north, (114-45)=69 miles south, 11 miles north (bike), 55 miles south Put it all together, and they're 1 mile south of where they started. Allow for some rounding error on distances, and you can see that a good argument can be made that the starting and ending cities are one and the same.
These are very good points, and I'm still open to this type of thinking. Two things:
The "45 miles out of the way" that Troye pointed out, and I'm not sure if there are intervals of driving that were omitted (I'll go back and look at my notes, but as I recall, there may have been some driving in-between the mileages mentioned).
Given that Nels apartment is on (his words "Bourbon Street") and name anagrams to New Orleans, he better be living in New Orleans or Pete has given a fatal misdirect. It wouldn't be funny, tricky, or anything like that - it would be totally wrong to set up a treasure hunt with that type of mislead.
(Assuming) New Orleans is the start, then would the south travel make sense ?
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toppop
Junior Member
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Post by toppop on Jun 7, 2017 12:59:38 GMT -5
I say we have to throw out any rules of puzzles that may exist. This is like snake oil or (LOL) at least 3-in-one oil, 3 hunts in one puzzle.
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Post by zaphod73491 on Jun 8, 2017 1:05:43 GMT -5
A simple question for Pete would be: "Does the RV/Clipper journey follow a fictional path?" I suspect he'll decline to answer, and if that's the case I am sorely tempted to simply burn his book on my next camping trip in retribution for the 200+ hours already invested, and not waste another brain cell on his hunt. He's already treading a fine line with the "novel" vehicle being used as a none-too-subtle advertisement for his company's products (and I certainly understand that business motivation), but there are more "pure" treasure hunts out there that don't share that stigma.
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Post by cowlazars on Jun 8, 2017 13:01:19 GMT -5
The starting city is Nashville at least in the book it is. In one of the interviews Pete said it was at the Hermitage Hotel in Nashville that he tried Buffalo Trace (in real life).
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toppop
Junior Member
Posts: 87
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Post by toppop on Jun 8, 2017 13:15:39 GMT -5
The starting city is Nashville at least in the book it is. In one of the interviews Pete said it was at the Hermitage Hotel in Nashville that he tried Buffalo Trace (in real life). Do you mean that the RV trip starts there, or Nashville is where the object is?
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Post by astree on Jun 8, 2017 14:13:07 GMT -5
The starting city is Nashville at least in the book it is. In one of the interviews Pete said it was at the Hermitage Hotel in Nashville that he tried Buffalo Trace (in real life). I'm going to look at that section of the book again. I thought I had looked at it and concluded that it did not use Nashville as the start. Thanks, Cowlazars, worth another look.
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Post by zaphod73491 on Jun 8, 2017 15:08:36 GMT -5
The starting city is Nashville at least in the book it is. In one of the interviews Pete said it was at the Hermitage Hotel in Nashville that he tried Buffalo Trace (in real life). Do you mean that the RV trip starts there, or Nashville is where the object is? Sure, Pete in real life apparently had his first Bourbon Sidecar at the Hermitage Hotel, but that in no way indicates that's where Nelson in the story lives. Absent further clarification from Pete, my conclusion is that it's best not to overthink it, and work the problem exactly as he recommends: use the 15-odd clues in the first 3/4 of the book to establish the city the treasure is hidden in (or reasonably near), figure out the correct starting point, and then follow the *walking* path of the characters to where Pete hid the hand-crafted object. If there ~are~ clues having to do with the distances and directions that the RV and Butterscotch Clipper took, there is no guarantee that they have anything to do with real highways, roads or distances, and in fact some of those details may have nothing to do with the current puzzle, but instead may apply to a later puzzle to be activated by additional chapters.
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