What I think we are REALLY looking for...

[ILLUMINATINPS]

Like many of you, Ive read Fenns book quite the many times. A few things really stuck out as red flags 1)His story about selling art reproductions. He posed a question to the buyer saying "Whos the real fake"? This happened after the buyer realized the painting wasn't a real original. 2)His story with the children asking them to touch the bronze statue and asking if its cold are warm. 3) His ability to cast bronze.

Where am i going with this? Well... Fenn from day one has stated we have a problem in our country, that people don't enjoy the outdoors as much and are glued to their devices. He created a treasure hunt for this chest because he knew it would motivate people enough to get off their butts and go look. Then comes the poem. Fenn is very candid about his TS Elliot quote " arriving where we started seeing it for the first time...". IMO his poem is not about finding the chest, its about finding Where Warm Waters Halt, and then going to a place where you can see Where Warm Waters halt from a different vantage point. This paralells with his answer to a lady saying "not on top of a mountain, maybe close". But what about the chest?? Well... he also admits he embellishes a little. So would it be too far off to think maybe the chest and some or all of its contents are casted bronze that has been painted gold?? Remember we are dealing with an experienced bronze caster.

Some of you may fume over this theory, especially if you have invested alot of money in BOTG. Now that we have this theory, lets look at the poem. Bold, Brown and Blaze are all talking about the same thing... and that is the chest itself.  So Home of Brown is actually the spot the chest is hidden. "If you have been wise and found the blaze (the chest), look quickly down". We aren't looking down at the chest, we are looking down at WWH, seeing it again for the first time. The reason he says "your effort will be worth the cold" is because although you found a chest that is technically not real gold, but bronze, your effort is worth the beautiful view that you have just discovered. That is why he says "those that are brave and in the wood" are the ones that will get "title to the gold". The real gold is the newly discovered places so long you are willing to wander. 


And of course this circles back to his scene selling the art reproductions. If this theory holds true in the end, you find the chest and you are mesmerized by the sight of WWH, should it really matter if the chest is worth 1 million or 1 dollar. In the end you ask yourself the real question "Whos the real fake"?


As crazy as this may seem, Fenn is cunning and may have orchestrated the biggest and best learning lesson to us all. Because he didn't come from money, he found true happiness in nature and issued this challenge to people to get off their butts and enjoy nature. The chest is just a lure, not a real minnow or fly. That last sentence probably made your hair stand up... Love you guys     

[heidini]

Are you saying the chest is filled with fakes???

[ILLUMINATINPS]

Yes. I’m Saying that is entirely possible. I’d be willing to bet some of it is.

[Jenny]

You can certainly have your opinion, illuminatnips.

I personally believe the treasure of the chest is as stated by Forrest--- and includes all the gold and relics he has described.

As I say in my post about the Treasure Facts From Forrest Fenn---- 'I realize fact is a pretty strong word. Some people may not think it is fact Forrest Fenn has hidden a million dollar (or more) treasure. However, since I choose to believe Forrest Fenn is a person of integrity and not one to mislead, I believe what he says, and this, then, is how I am determining what is ‘fact’ or not.'

I go on to share the facts....as they have been shared by Forrest Fenn---



I believe the chest is the lure, but it is also the prize and is what Forrest has said it is. Not a fake.

[Deleted]

Jan 28, 2019 5:10:33 GMT -5 ILLUMINATINPS said:

Like many of you, Ive read Fenns book quite the many times. A few things really stuck out as red flags 1)His story about selling art reproductions. He posed a question to the buyer saying "Whos the real fake"? This happened after the buyer realized the painting wasn't a real original. 2)His story with the children asking them to touch the bronze statue and asking if its cold are warm. 3) His ability to cast bronze.

Where am i going with this? Well... Fenn from day one has stated we have a problem in our country, that people don't enjoy the outdoors as much and are glued to their devices. He created a treasure hunt for this chest because he knew it would motivate people enough to get off their butts and go look. Then comes the poem. Fenn is very candid about his TS Elliot quote " arriving where we started seeing it for the first time...". IMO his poem is not about finding the chest, its about finding Where Warm Waters Halt, and then going to a place where you can see Where Warm Waters halt from a different vantage point. This paralells with his answer to a lady saying "not on top of a mountain, maybe close". But what about the chest?? Well... he also admits he embellishes a little. So would it be too far off to think maybe the chest and some or all of its contents are casted bronze that has been painted gold?? Remember we are dealing with an experienced bronze caster.

Some of you may fume over this theory, especially if you have invested alot of money in BOTG. Now that we have this theory, lets look at the poem. Bold, Brown and Blaze are all talking about the same thing... and that is the chest itself.  So Home of Brown is actually the spot the chest is hidden. "If you have been wise and found the blaze (the chest), look quickly down". We aren't looking down at the chest, we are looking down at WWH, seeing it again for the first time. The reason he says "your effort will be worth the cold" is because although you found a chest that is technically not real gold, but bronze, your effort is worth the beautiful view that you have just discovered. That is why he says "those that are brave and in the wood" are the ones that will get "title to the gold". The real gold is the newly discovered places so long you are willing to wander. 


And of course this circles back to his scene selling the art reproductions. If this theory holds true in the end, you find the chest and you are mesmerized by the sight of WWH, should it really matter if the chest is worth 1 million or 1 dollar. In the end you ask yourself the real question "Whos the real fake"?


As crazy as this may seem, Fenn is cunning and may have orchestrated the biggest and best learning lesson to us all. Because he didn't come from money, he found true happiness in nature and issued this challenge to people to get off their butts and enjoy nature. The chest is just a lure, not a real minnow or fly. That last sentence probably made your hair stand up... Love you guys     

Anything's possible but good point.

[lookinup]

Jan 28, 2019 7:18:04 GMT -5 heidini said:

Are you saying the chest is filled with fakes???

 

I doubt the hair sample is 'fake.'  -  DNA doesn't deceive. 

Not yet, anyway.

[Deleted]

Jan 28, 2019 5:10:33 GMT -5 ILLUMINATINPS said:

Like many of you, Ive read Fenns book quite the many times. A few things really stuck out as red flags 1)His story about selling art reproductions. He posed a question to the buyer saying "Whos the real fake"? This happened after the buyer realized the painting wasn't a real original. 2)His story with the children asking them to touch the bronze statue and asking if its cold are warm. 3) His ability to cast bronze.

Where am i going with this? Well... Fenn from day one has stated we have a problem in our country, that people don't enjoy the outdoors as much and are glued to their devices. He created a treasure hunt for this chest because he knew it would motivate people enough to get off their butts and go look. Then comes the poem. Fenn is very candid about his TS Elliot quote " arriving where we started seeing it for the first time...". IMO his poem is not about finding the chest, its about finding Where Warm Waters Halt, and then going to a place where you can see Where Warm Waters halt from a different vantage point. This paralells with his answer to a lady saying "not on top of a mountain, maybe close". But what about the chest?? Well... he also admits he embellishes a little. So would it be too far off to think maybe the chest and some or all of its contents are casted bronze that has been painted gold?? Remember we are dealing with an experienced bronze caster.

Some of you may fume over this theory, especially if you have invested alot of money in BOTG. Now that we have this theory, lets look at the poem. Bold, Brown and Blaze are all talking about the same thing... and that is the chest itself.  So Home of Brown is actually the spot the chest is hidden. "If you have been wise and found the blaze (the chest), look quickly down". We aren't looking down at the chest, we are looking down at WWH, seeing it again for the first time. The reason he says "your effort will be worth the cold" is because although you found a chest that is technically not real gold, but bronze, your effort is worth the beautiful view that you have just discovered. That is why he says "those that are brave and in the wood" are the ones that will get "title to the gold". The real gold is the newly discovered places so long you are willing to wander. 


And of course this circles back to his scene selling the art reproductions. If this theory holds true in the end, you find the chest and you are mesmerized by the sight of WWH, should it really matter if the chest is worth 1 million or 1 dollar. In the end you ask yourself the real question "Whos the real fake"?


As crazy as this may seem, Fenn is cunning and may have orchestrated the biggest and best learning lesson to us all. Because he didn't come from money, he found true happiness in nature and issued this challenge to people to get off their butts and enjoy nature. The chest is just a lure, not a real minnow or fly. That last sentence probably made your hair stand up... Love you guys     

Are you looking at ttotc.
That forrest is playing some kind of game with the people to get them in to the moutains.
Anything is possible That does make me think when Forrest said when you open the TC for the first time you'll going to start laughing.

[ILLUMINATINPS]

I hear ya Jenny. And please understand I am by no means labeling FF a fraud, I’m actually hoping tipping my hat to him if my theory holds true. It’s ultimate message... The best treasure in life is time outdoors with your loved ones not a chest filled with 1 million in gold. Getting told you are gonna die of cancer makes you understand that much faster than some...

[rahrah]

There is a reason Fenn hid the treasure; he says to get kids off their texting devices and out into the wilderness....sounds good, but the poem and location tell a different reason; one that IMO was his best investment of the value of the chest to uncover/expose something he feels strongly about...it is important to him, so he did indeed put together a real treasure - it motivates thousands to go find it and when it's found, you'll know the reason.

[Deleted]

illuminatinps ... Despite trying to tiptoe around the issue of fraud, that's basically what you're saying: Forrest can't be trusted to put actual gold in the chest. So based on some issue regarding the selling of an art reproduction you read about, you extrapolate that issue to a fraudulent motive about the contents of the chest.

Forrest has said that the chest weights ~ 42 pounds and the reason the chest is so heavy is because gold weighs a lot. He has also mentioned how many Troy ounces of gold are in the chest (sorry, don't have the quote handy, maybe someone else can retrieve it).

Of course once you conclude that the hunt for gold is fraudulent, then you're not likely to believe anything Forrest says, least of all how much the chest and its content weigh.

There's always the chance that Forrest has misrepresented the treasure hunt. How would we ever know for sure, given the absence of any finder?

But why subject one's eternal reputation to such a scam? What's the point? Most people don't need gold bullion to entice them to explore and enjoy the Rockies, including wherever WWWH is. Yet, the fact that people have spent lots of money (some even their life savings) in search of gold, not in search of some idyllic WWWH, it would be a terrible ploy on Fenn's part.

Also, Fenn has been quite transparent about his personal life including exactly where he lives.  Can you imagine the anger of the finder or other searchers when he or she or they realize that the content is basically worthless, and that they have been led down the garden path?

So your theory, while possible, seems to me misplaced, but consistent with the ever growing cynicism throughout the chase community these days. You're certainly not the first to look on the dark side; that POV has become endemic.

By the way, given your screen name, are you a VIP with the National Park Service? Just curious. 

[ILLUMINATINPS]

@drifter Agree to disagree. I am not tiptoeing around fraud. I am hoping the treasure is just an item, not real gold. Because it fits my thoery. Im not accusing him, Im hoping thats exactly what he did. On a micro level, the Bossal treasure is a gold plated cross. Does that make it not worth finding?? My point is on the same plane as what RahRah said. It doesn't matter if the treasure has any real value, what matters is the meaning of the final location. Im just saying that its a possibility (due to the two stories I mentioned), that yes the treasure is real, but the value isn't. I personally don't think it matters. Of course at this point it matters to some if they have invested 1000's in BOTG trips, but that doesn't entitle you to anything. So to summarize, I believe the treasure is real, I hope the value isn't. It would be the ultimate mental crossroad to the finder once they are looking at that final beautiful place. And IMO, that is something I can see Fenn doing, not in a fraudulent way, but in a teaching way. Its always been about being in nature, not finding a million dollar chest and being indifferent to the spot. Hope I made myself more clear. BTW Im not a VIP with the NPS, I don't even think I'm important in my own house

[npsbuilder]

Jan 28, 2019 8:47:45 GMT -5 Jenny said:

You can certainly have your opinion, illuminatnips.

I personally believe the treasure of the chest is as stated by Forrest--- and includes all the gold and relics he has described.

As I say in my post about the Treasure Facts From Forrest Fenn---- 'I realize fact is a pretty strong word. Some people may not think it is fact Forrest Fenn has hidden a million dollar (or more) treasure. However, since I choose to believe Forrest Fenn is a person of integrity and not one to mislead, I believe what he says, and this, then, is how I am determining what is ‘fact’ or not.'

I go on to share the facts....as they have been shared by Forrest Fenn---



I believe the chest is the lure, but it is also the prize and is what Forrest has said it is. Not a fake.

I have no doubt, as many searchers do, that the tc is somewhere out there. To what illuminatnips laid out has some merit to it in my opinion. Earlier this evening I read Scrapbook 164 (link below) and the last line is a statement by f - "Thank you for the favor, Mister Poe. f" Mister Poe is a maker of fishing lures. Maybe there are 2 chests we are looking for. The poem gets you to the 1st chest (whatever lure that is), say in a public square that people see every day (wherever) without being the wiser to the fact this is the place to be to see the blaze. Only the searcher that has enough understanding of the poem will know it when he/she sees it. The 2nd chest (true tc) is at or near the blaze (whatever that is)...under your feet or on the side of the distant mountain. Who knows, only 1 person for sure knows. I think pinpointing something hidden and not to be found by accident is hard to do in so many words without making the quest too easy. Writing a map to the lure would be much easier and even easier to do what ff has done and that is to make the location vague enough to send searchers all through the mountains and that is why "your quest to cease,..."


dalneitzel.com/2017/01/12/scrapbook-one-hundred-sixty-four-2/#comments