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Post by Jenny on Sept 12, 2019 8:53:20 GMT -5
Which is maybe why you shouldn't toss an entire solve when you don't come home with the chest. It may mean only 1 element was off but this whole idea contradicts the quote about nothing about it will be accidental and going with confidence. Actually I'm not sure it does contradict that statement/thought.... SOMEONE will move with confidence....the searcher who has correctly solved all the clues....That searcher will find the chest by reading the poem over and over again, and analyzing it. They will walk right to it. Nothing about it will be accidental. Just like Forrest says. . What the comments do suggest though, and brings attention to, is the other circumstance.... There will be those searchers who move with confidence, but yet have not correctly solved the clues, and will only realize it once on location.
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Post by davebakedpotato on Sept 12, 2019 11:04:01 GMT -5
They didn't understand 'solved/figured out/mentioned correctly etc' in the sense in which you are interpreting it. i.e. knowing the location that WWWH refers to. I believe that ff used these words in the sense of only identifying what the first two clues were in the poem, but not where they referred to. This would explain how they could be near the spot but not know it. They simply happened by chance to be in the vicinity of the spot.
I understand what you are saying..... However, in one interpretation of what Forrest said, it seems to be taken that those searchers who had figured out the clues, figured out all there was to 'specifically discover' about the first two clues given in the poem... and such is the reason for Forrest then saying, 'you won't know you have them right until the chest is found'-- that wwwh is just one of the many, and the correct one is only known by the other clues being able to be followed and falling into place. I know there are many that disagree with that interpretation because their 'proposed solutions' support there being more, and I'm not saying I like it...I would love for more to be hidden in the poem about WWWH, but is there for sure? No one can say... (unless they have the chest and found other hints to wwwh). His comments seem to suggest there isn't more..... There are further 'ingredients' to WWWH *somewhere* which need to be taken into account. I believe the poem can stand on it's own and take a searcher to the chest. Dear Forrest, You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is: a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe” Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal? Your question reminds me of another: You leave home and walk a straight line for a mile, turn 90 degrees left and walk a curved line for a mile and shoot a bear. Then you turn 90 degrees left again and walk a straight line back to your home. What color is the bear?f
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Post by Jenny on Sept 12, 2019 11:13:47 GMT -5
I understand what you are saying..... However, in one interpretation of what Forrest said, it seems to be taken that those searchers who had figured out the clues, figured out all there was to 'specifically discover' about the first two clues given in the poem... and such is the reason for Forrest then saying, 'you won't know you have them right until the chest is found'-- that wwwh is just one of the many, and the correct one is only known by the other clues being able to be followed and falling into place. I know there are many that disagree with that interpretation because their 'proposed solutions' support there being more, and I'm not saying I like it...I would love for more to be hidden in the poem about WWWH, but is there for sure? No one can say... (unless they have the chest and found other hints to wwwh). His comments seem to suggest there isn't more..... There are further 'ingredients' to WWWH *somewhere* which need to be taken into account. I believe the poem can stand on it's own and take a searcher to the chest. Dear Forrest, You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is: a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe” Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal? Your question reminds me of another: You leave home and walk a straight line for a mile, turn 90 degrees left and walk a curved line for a mile and shoot a bear. Then you turn 90 degrees left again and walk a straight line back to your home. What color is the bear?f That is a great quote for this discussion. One of my questions would be if those 'other ingredients' are just the other clues falling into place, thereby supporting and eventually confirming WWWH because the chest is found by following the rest of the poem, or are there 'hints' to identify AND CONFIRM WWWH? And even if there are other hints, do they 'confirm' it?
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Post by Bownarrow on Sept 12, 2019 11:53:10 GMT -5
There are further 'ingredients' to WWWH *somewhere* which need to be taken into account. I believe the poem can stand on it's own and take a searcher to the chest. Dear Forrest, You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is: a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe” Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal? Your question reminds me of another: You leave home and walk a straight line for a mile, turn 90 degrees left and walk a curved line for a mile and shoot a bear. Then you turn 90 degrees left again and walk a straight line back to your home. What color is the bear?f That is a great quote for this discussion. One of my questions would be if those 'other ingredients' are just the other clues falling into place, thereby supporting and eventually confirming WWWH because the chest is found by following the rest of the poem, or are there 'hints' to identify AND CONFIRM WWWH? And even if there are other hints, do they 'confirm' it? “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.” f
Can curved lines assist us to the treasure or not?
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Post by richard on Sept 12, 2019 12:02:04 GMT -5
There are further 'ingredients' to WWWH *somewhere* which need to be taken into account. I believe the poem can stand on it's own and take a searcher to the chest. Dear Forrest, You tell us that we should find “where warm waters halt” before trying to solve any of the other clues. Imagining that we haven’t seen the rest of the poem, and all we have to go on is: a. “begin it where warm waters halt” and b. “somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe” Do you think that we can confidently determine the starting place for your treasure trail? ~ Steve No, if all you have to go on are those two clues you cannot proceed with confidence. Look at it this way. If you were making a cake and you left out a few ingredients, would you achieve your goal? Your question reminds me of another: You leave home and walk a straight line for a mile, turn 90 degrees left and walk a curved line for a mile and shoot a bear. Then you turn 90 degrees left again and walk a straight line back to your home. What color is the bear?f That is a great quote for this discussion. One of my questions would be if those 'other ingredients' are just the other clues falling into place, thereby supporting and eventually confirming WWWH because the chest is found by following the rest of the poem, or are there 'hints' to identify AND CONFIRM WWWH? And even if there are other hints, do they 'confirm' it? According to Forrest, the only way to confirm you have the correct locations is by solving the final clue and retrieving the chest.
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Post by davebakedpotato on Sept 12, 2019 12:06:38 GMT -5
[/quote]That is a great quote for this discussion. One of my questions would be if those 'other ingredients' are just the other clues falling into place, thereby supporting and eventually confirming WWWH because the chest is found by following the rest of the poem, or are there 'hints' to identify AND CONFIRM WWWH? And even if there are other hints, do they 'confirm' it? [/quote]
It doesn't read to me like the other ingredients are the rest of the solutions, especially if we accept that some searchers may have solved and visited WWH. One possibility is that 'and take it in the canyon down' is part of solving WWH (they seem to come as a pair e.g. in the Little girl from India scenario and in that no-one has been confirmed to have solved the third clue). 'Confirm' is a strong word. Perhaps there are hints/partial clues in the rest of the poem. The rest of the poem exists for *some reason* imo.
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Post by davebakedpotato on Sept 12, 2019 12:18:48 GMT -5
Interesting also 'a few ingredients'. Possibly more than one then (or was he being artfully vague?).
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Post by Bownarrow on Sept 12, 2019 12:29:25 GMT -5
Your question reminds me of another: You leave home and walk a straight line for a mile, turn 90 degrees left and walk a curved line for a mile and shoot a bear. Then you turn 90 degrees left again and walk a straight line back to your home. What color is the bear?f When I saw this riddle as kid it was simply "walk in a line for a mile". No mention of a curved line.
That ff changed it to a curved line might be ff wanting to draw attention to 'curved lines". In terms of the riddle it gives too much away regarding how to solve it.
Then again it might be ff creating a red herring.
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Post by Bownarrow on Sept 12, 2019 12:30:05 GMT -5
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Post by zaphod73491 on Sept 12, 2019 15:55:18 GMT -5
Which is maybe why you shouldn't toss an entire solve when you don't come home with the chest. It may mean only 1 element was off but this whole idea contradicts the quote about nothing about it will be accidental and going with confidence. SOMEONE will move with confidence....the searcher who has correctly solved all the clues....That searcher will find the chest by reading the poem over and over again, and analyzing it. They will walk right to it. Nothing about it will be accidental. Just like Forrest says. What the comments do suggest though, and brings attention to, is the other circumstance.... There will be those searchers who move with confidence, but yet have not correctly solved the clues, and will only realize it once on location. There-in lies the problem: an abundance of misplaced confidence. Clearly everyone who commits time and $$ to put BOTG has surpassed some personal threshold of confidence that was enough to get them out the door. The problem is that so far, 100% of those searchers have been wrong. Is it because searchers are too "soft" with their self-critique? Are they unaware of some of the things that Forrest has said or written that invalidate their solution, or are they aware and simply downplay it as a slip-up by Forrest or an appeal to his "85% truthful" statement from TTOTC?
Multiple-trip searchers I think eventually "wise-up" and become better at playing Devil's Advocate with their solutions.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 0:08:35 GMT -5
zap wrote: Yes, yes, yes. A thousand times yes. Searchers expect the poem to be easily solved. After all, most everything in our culture is based on speed and ease. Why shouldn't this poem be easy, too? Like turning the remote control to "On". And the skill of critical thinking seems to be a lost art. Forrest comes from a different generation, when life wasn't always ... easy. That generation had to rely on individual resourcefulness to solve problems, as described in TTOTC. I don't think this lesson about the poem's difficulty has really sunk in yet, even among veteran searchers.
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Post by davebakedpotato on Sept 13, 2019 1:00:59 GMT -5
zap wrote: Yes, yes, yes. A thousand times yes. Searchers expect the poem to be easily solved. After all, most everything in our culture is based on speed and ease. Why shouldn't this poem be easy, too? Like turning the remote control to "On". And the skill of critical thinking seems to be a lost art. Forrest comes from a different generation, when life wasn't always ... easy. That generation had to rely on individual resourcefulness to solve problems, as described in TTOTC. I don't think this lesson about the poem's difficulty has really sunk in yet, even among veteran searchers. Agreed, and not just because no-one's found the chest yet as far as we know. So how does he make a solvable hunt last a long time in a relatively small poem? How does he do this without 'riddles, drones or ciphers'? Definitely one to ponder, experienced searchers may already know some of the answers.
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Post by Jenny on Sept 13, 2019 6:15:46 GMT -5
zap wrote: Yes, yes, yes. A thousand times yes. Searchers expect the poem to be easily solved. After all, most everything in our culture is based on speed and ease. Why shouldn't this poem be easy, too? Like turning the remote control to "On". And the skill of critical thinking seems to be a lost art. Forrest comes from a different generation, when life wasn't always ... easy. That generation had to rely on individual resourcefulness to solve problems, as described in TTOTC. I don't think this lesson about the poem's difficulty has really sunk in yet, even among veteran searchers. Agreed, and not just because no-one's found the chest yet as far as we know. So how does he make a solvable hunt last a long time in a relatively small poem? How does he do this without 'riddles, drones or ciphers'? Definitely one to ponder, experienced searchers may already know some of the answers. I often consider that Forrest said it took him over 15 years to craft the poem...... would he really want someone to find it upon the first reading or two? Would he make it easier to find then it took him to write it? What would he do to guard against that? He said it is difficult, but not impossible.... and he said it might be hundreds of years before someone finds it.... sure it could be found tomorrow, but we shouldn't become frustrated if it isn't..... It's not supposed to be easy and that shouldn't be expected... Definitely something to ponder... (maybe for another thread
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Post by astree on Sept 13, 2019 7:05:03 GMT -5
The above quote is from zap, on page 1 of this thread. The searcher who suggested YNP as WWWH obviously doesn't understand the concept of geographic (map) scale. And the idea of WWWH being the Continental Divide is just as ludicrous. (I think I know who started that theory, elsewhere). You and I are in agreement that WWWH is a precise geographic spot. And I will go a step further: even though there are many such spots north of Santa Fe, the poem alludes to one, and only one, such spot. So if the poem alludes to one spot, and only one, why didn't those who 'figured out the first two clues' know it? (Please know I'm not trying to be augmentative- just thinking) If they 'figured it out'.... it sounds like Forrest felt they found all there was given in the poem..... There are a lot of posts on this, so I’ll just use this one. As a consideration, why cant “they” (in the Forrest quote) refer to the group who found but were not sure of the first clues? And that “someone who finds the treasure” not be part of “they”?
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Post by astree on Sept 13, 2019 7:29:53 GMT -5
zap wrote: Yes, yes, yes. A thousand times yes. Searchers expect the poem to be easily solved. After all, most everything in our culture is based on speed and ease. Why shouldn't this poem be easy, too? Like turning the remote control to "On". And the skill of critical thinking seems to be a lost art. Forrest comes from a different generation, when life wasn't always ... easy. That generation had to rely on individual resourcefulness to solve problems, as described in TTOTC. I don't think this lesson about the poem's difficulty has really sunk in yet, even among veteran searchers. Agreed, and not just because no-one's found the chest yet as far as we know. So how does he make a solvable hunt last a long time in a relatively small poem? How does he do this without 'riddles, drones or ciphers'? Definitely one to ponder, experienced searchers may already know some of the answers. Dave, I see two possibilities: 1) the hunt is a hoax, so there is no need for consistency 2) the poem dictates precise information which will lead the searcher to one and only one spot. It cannot depend on guesswork at what the clues are, and where they apply geographically, because one could not be sure... i.e., there could be thousands (millions?) of such guesses. To do this, there must be information hidden in the poem. This opens up possible interpretation of the riddle, drone, cipher, code comment.
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