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Post by stiparest on Jan 29, 2020 9:09:23 GMT -5
. I believe the p. 47 polybius was solved, and emphasized certain information already coded in other forms. p. 17 ... im not sure that is polybius (even though it looks like it). Can you share what that solve is? I don't remember it being being discussed anywhwere, but I might have missed that post. If we are listing unambiguous pieces, is this one, or is it open to interpretation?
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Post by thisjustin on Jan 29, 2020 13:37:35 GMT -5
. I believe the p. 47 polybius was solved, and emphasized certain information already coded in other forms. p. 17 ... im not sure that is polybius (even though it looks like it). Can you share what that solve is? I don't remember it being being discussed anywhwere, but I might have missed that post. If we are listing unambiguous pieces, is this one, or is it open to interpretation? I recall someone suggesting that there was a polybius solve for p. 47, but I never heard any confirmation nor what the solve came up with. I think that maybe it was user Catherwood that was taking a stab at it, but my understanding was that it never actually led anywhere. Of course I would love to be wrong, so Astree, if you have anything you'd like to share we would all welcome it!
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Post by thisjustin on Jan 29, 2020 14:27:00 GMT -5
Excellent post Pumalion! Completely agree with your list of unambiguous clues. I think one more should be added (not mine, can’t take credit). It’s regarding the sentence that is found by adding each word directly in front of the fox’s nose in each picture. Basically tells you that the moon face upside down acts as a map (I am paraphrasing here). Also, edit “RED YELLOW BOONK” - I only mention it because the letter “N” was probably not added by accident. Likewise “NUMBERS OPE HIDFEN TREASURE RIDDLE” it’s almost as if the N was meant to connect and complete the word “OPEN” like a crossword puzzle. In the "Eden Solve", I ended up with the phrase "Follow a cross forever. A moon shadow points upside down at the treasure held." I don't consider this unambiguous however. If you just use the nose, you could pick one of up to four words in each illustration. For example, what do you do on p. 26 where Fandango is staring straight ahead? I used an eye-through-nose technique for the phrase above, but again that is open to interpretation. Do you use one eye? Both eyes? I used both on p. 26 to pick "moon" and "shadow". But then what about p. 47 where his eyes are closed? I used the whole border phrase "upside down". "Down" alone would have worked nicely, but Fandango's nose actually points to "upside" which by itself would make no sense. So to me, while I think this is a potentially interesting clue, I don't consider it unambiguous. Leaving the "N" out of Red Yellow Book makes sense to me as Nepal is the only sign not in North America and the only one without an arrow. But to your point, Stockwell purposefully misspells every other clue, so why not this one too? Regarding the star line phrase, there is even some debate about which letters are picked/wrong, but the consensus seems to be NUMBERS OPE HIDFEN TREUSRE RIDLDE. I have always liked the idea that the missing/wrong/misplaced letters are N, F, A, D which can be rearranged to FAND suggesting we need to find the missing ANGO. But then again, what about the "U" in TREUSRE - it's both wrong and misplaced. Treating it like the "F" in HIDFEN would suggest you use the "U", not the "A" you replace it with. And in either case, you would have to replace the "U" and then change it's position. Bottom line, this is not consistent with the method for HIDFEN or RIDLDE, so again, some ambiguity in my view.
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Post by catherwood on Jan 29, 2020 15:05:24 GMT -5
I recall someone suggesting that there was a polybius solve for p. 47, but I never heard any confirmation nor what the solve came up with. I think that maybe it was user Catherwood that was taking a stab at it, but my understanding was that it never actually led anywhere... The theory which was posted here almost a year ago by ralph* involved a complex spiral path of the Fox traveling the book itself and the suggestion that a "separate sub-puzzle leads to the construction of two Polybius squares" which did spark my interest. I was never able to replicate the tables nor the message supposedly encoded with that method. *the post from Feb.22, 2019 mysteriouswritings.proboards.com/thread/2984/detailed-solution-riddle
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Post by morpheus221 on Jan 30, 2020 13:11:52 GMT -5
Hi Justin, thanks for the post. I have perhaps pigeonholed my thoughts on this puzzle, focusing almost exclusively on the U blocks on pages 19 and 47. It either is the hidden treasure riddle or important in solving the puzzle. I can’t accept a theory that doesn’t include a solve for them. They are meticulously placed and colored (and ‘hidden’ in plain sight). Also, if each U block represents a letter, it would provide a similar number of letters as in the Masquerade riddle.
Here’s the overall way I see this one:
U Block > number -> letter -> spell out a riddle we are then supposed to solve Simple substitution for number to letter. Note also, the choice of five pixels, a great number to use for common letters in the alphabet (E, O, T) and great way to create a homophonic substitution cipher. Now just have to assign a number to each color. This thought process is only way I can see ‘numbers open hidden treasure riddle’ making sense. Any thoughts?
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Post by thisjustin on Jan 30, 2020 13:42:21 GMT -5
Hi Justin, thanks for the post. I have perhaps pigeonholed my thoughts on this puzzle, focusing almost exclusively on the U blocks on pages 19 and 47. It either is the hidden treasure riddle or important in solving the puzzle. I can’t accept a theory that doesn’t include a solve for them. They are meticulously placed and colored (and ‘hidden’ in plain sight). Also, if each U block represents a letter, it would provide a similar number of letters as in the Masquerade riddle. Here’s the overall way I see this one: U Block > number -> letter -> spell out a riddle we are then supposed to solve Simple substitution for number to letter. Note also, the choice of five pixels, a great number to use for common letters in the alphabet (E, O, T) and great way to create a homophonic substitution cipher. Now just have to assign a number to each color. This thought process is only way I can see ‘numbers open hidden treasure riddle’ making sense. Any thoughts? I would love to believe the same. The things that give me pause are twofold. First, the illustrations break the inner borders on both pages 19 and 47 at various points and obscure some blocks and eliminate others. Second, and far more concerning in my opinion, is the amount of color variation among the blocks. To accomplish a color/number substitution, you would need some level of consistency of color and a relatively small numbers of color variations. When I look at the illustrations I find myself asking things like, "is that blue or purple, red or pink, orange or red?" Is blue blue, or is light blue different from navy blue different from midnight blue? The inability to properly or consistently define the actual colors within the blocks either means 1) it is a red herring or 2) this is the reason the puzzle hasn't been solved for 12 years.
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Post by thisjustin on Jan 30, 2020 13:43:11 GMT -5
. I believe the p. 47 polybius was solved, and emphasized certain information already coded in other forms. p. 17 ... im not sure that is polybius (even though it looks like it). Can you share what that solve is? I don't remember it being being discussed anywhwere, but I might have missed that post. If we are listing unambiguous pieces, is this one, or is it open to interpretation? Astree - care to share???
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Post by goldenchild on Jan 30, 2020 21:39:51 GMT -5
I’ve noticed many borders on the pages that mostly match top to bottom, or left to right with their counterpart. Most borders you can find a certain spot that doesn’t match however with its opposite counterpart. For example on the tea for two page it seems to segment off a “strip” of the page that encompasses the area where the clock and polybius square are. Maybe indicating where we should be focusing on that page. I’ve noticed similar mismatches on other pages borders that seem to be in line with important clues also.
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Post by morpheus221 on Jan 30, 2020 22:06:38 GMT -5
“The inability to properly or consistently define the actual colors within the blocks either means 1) it is a red herring or 2) this is the reason the puzzle hasn't been solved for 12 years.”
Justin. Sadly, I think #2 may be true. The blocks of color that have always seemed to stand out: 1) the signs (note also a pixel painted on the back of one these signs- seems like a clue) 2) the books (harlequin literally means MULTICOLORED)
Take also, the clear direction of assigning numbers to colors on the “tea painting” and confirmation of these color/number assignments with the ordering of color/numbers in “NUMBERS OPE HIDFEN TREASURE RIDDLE”. I think there are about 24-26 different shades of color in those U blocks. Whether this puzzle was lost in print or we are way off base, we hopefully will find out this November (or sooner). I always like the idea that the sigil symbol connected all these images.
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Post by thisjustin on Jan 31, 2020 12:47:12 GMT -5
I’ve noticed many borders on the pages that mostly match top to bottom, or left to right with their counterpart. Most borders you can find a certain spot that doesn’t match however with its opposite counterpart. For example on the tea for two page it seems to segment off a “strip” of the page that encompasses the area where the clock and polybius square are. Maybe indicating where we should be focusing on that page. I’ve noticed similar mismatches on other pages borders that seem to be in line with important clues also. goldenchild, I have found the same. The pattern breaks are not on every page, but they are on several. Perhaps they are starting points for some sort of counting technique (numbers open the riddle after all).
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Post by morpheus221 on Jan 31, 2020 13:05:57 GMT -5
Speaking of border codes, are we in agreement that the animal painting with the triangles in the border is a simple substitution cipher? There has been some difference of opinion as to what it spells or if it really is a clue. Thoughts?
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Post by stiparest on Jan 31, 2020 14:22:34 GMT -5
Speaking of border codes, are we in agreement that the animal painting with the triangles in the border is a simple substitution cipher? There has been some difference of opinion as to what it spells or if it really is a clue. Thoughts? I'm not sure which 'animal painting' you are referring to. The Indian painting has triangles in the border, as well as the King Neptune painting, but neither has any animals. Maybe I'm missing something?
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Post by morpheus221 on Jan 31, 2020 18:05:59 GMT -5
Sorry. Neptune painting. My mistake.
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Post by stiparest on Jan 31, 2020 19:08:27 GMT -5
Sorry. Neptune painting. My mistake. Gotcha. Thanks!
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Post by morpheus221 on Jan 31, 2020 20:39:31 GMT -5
Do you think the Neptune border contains an encoded message?
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