How does Forrest know the treasure is still there?

[astree]

.
That's along the lines of what I got out of it, Dave. I didn't interpret Forrest to say that the search community was going to get ongoing confirmation that the treasure is still there, or that they will be guaranteed to be notified if it's found.

I have seen where Forrest said he would notify media if he is informed that Indulgence is found.

[goldilocks]

In The Codex by Douglas Preston the Forrest Fenn character left his Last Will on a video recording for his sons to find and play after his death. This is a way Forrest could make his wishes known without having others involved while he's still alive. I believe Forrest when he says there is a way he will know when the treasure is found.

[davebakedpotato]

Jan 10, 2020 15:12:54 GMT -5 goldilocks said:

I believe Forrest when he says there is a way he will know when the treasure is found.

I do too, I think he's said as much at least twice. I'm not sure it's automatic or remote though, I suspect it's a note in the chest requesting that he be notified, but it may be something more cunning (the cheque idea was pretty neat).

[davebakedpotato]

Jan 10, 2020 16:20:19 GMT -5 davebakedpotato said:

Jan 10, 2020 15:12:54 GMT -5 goldilocks said:

I believe Forrest when he says there is a way he will know when the treasure is found.

I do too, I think he's said as much at least twice. I'm not sure it's automatic or remote though, I suspect it's a note in the chest requesting that he be notified, but it may be something more cunning (the cheque idea was pretty neat).

Take the cheque idea.

It's not automatic (the finder may not bank the cheque).

It's not remote (you can't say for sure that the chest is still there based on the cheque not being banked).

[crm114]

If not an IOU, how about a "super IOU.?". An IOU, much like a will can simply be a piece of paper. It's nicer if it's something more, such as registered with a lawyer. As I recall, Forrest said the problem with an IOU is the bank might go kaput. If lawyers also were hired, they could see to it that a new FDIC bank is found. The banks could have reciprocal agreements to arrange for new lawyers in case they go kaput. Both would draw fees off the interest. It's something of a conservatorship.

If Fenn passes, the lawyers and bankers could be revealed and the Fenn family could exit. The lawyers and/or bank would periodically verify the IOU was not cashed. Nobody but Fenn need know where the treasure is. The IOU has to be big enough to entice the finder to cash it, but if the IOU is for the account balance, it's possible Fenn could have bumped it up if he thought that was necessary. Ive never read a good analysis on whether the finder will owe immediate taxes on the treasure, but it would seem providing a redneck with 12 kids the funds to hire a lawyer and tax attorney would be a kind thing to do.

Three reasons he would not disclose this now:
1 If it is found before Fenn passes, nobody but the bank and lawyers and Fenn need know who the finder is or that the IOU existed. Perhaps you can remain anonymous after too, it just might be harder.
2 The bankers and lawyers would rightfully deserve higher fees for dealing with the public. There's no need to spend these fees now.
3 Not revealing the method sort of adds to the mystery and tests whether you trust what he says

[rahrah]

My view is that once found, Fenn (or his estate) will need to formally renounce ownership so it legally becomes the property of the finder.

[crm114]

Weird, I was off browsing and I happened upon this article I've never seen before:

www.internationalopulence.com/forrest-fenn/

Key bit:

The treasure-related frenzy has grown each year, and
with it so too has Forrest's legacy. "I think the biggest disappointment for Forrest would be if someone finds or, has already found, the treasure, but is keeping it a secret, selling off the contents one piece at a time so as not to attract any attention," muses McGarrity. "But Forrest tried to safeguard against that by including some really rare pieces that he would notice if they showed up at auction."

McGarrity is Fenns other literary friend.

[CJ]

Here's a thought. The treasure chest is out there. It's on private land, owned by Forrest. When you solve the poem, it takes you to a place where you are able to obtain the "deed" to the land that he owns. In order to retrieve the chest, you have to accept ownership of the land via the deed so that you can legally go onto the land and retrieve the treasure. You have to record the deed with the county in order to make it legally yours - and it's quite possibly a very secure place. That land transfer would be public, so he could check on that....you get the land...and you get the chest and the treasure. Ownership is probably some obscure LLC to ensure that no-one knows he owns it.

Do you need to "look quickly down"...down the page of the deed? Is the blaze his signature? That's a little out of the box and "in a word, yes" and "doesn't point in any direction", right?

If that's the case, would the deed be in the special place, or is the land that he owns the special place or is the deed just something in the box - with land so valuable that no fool would ever NOT record the deed? I could see any of these as possibilities.

Remember those comments about renting a place and whether or not you could dig up the yard? That's probably a hint.

That may also explain the 99.99% sure that it's there kind of comments - because you can never be 100% - that someone didn't break/sneak in and get it - BUT - it would be pretty unlikely if the above (or some similar concept) were true.

[davebakedpotato]

Jan 12, 2020 12:46:28 GMT -5 CJ said:

Here's a thought. The treasure chest is out there. It's on private land, owned by Forrest. When you solve the poem, it takes you to a place where you are able to obtain the "deed" to the land that he owns. In order to retrieve the chest, you have to accept ownership of the land via the deed so that you can legally go onto the land and retrieve the treasure. You have to record the deed with the county in order to make it legally yours - and it's quite possibly a very secure place. That land transfer would be public, so he could check on that....you get the land...and you get the chest and the treasure. Ownership is probably some obscure LLC to ensure that no-one knows he owns it.

Do you need to "look quickly down"...down the page of the deed? Is the blaze his signature? That's a little out of the box and "in a word, yes" and "doesn't point in any direction", right?

If that's the case, would the deed be in the special place, or is the land that he owns the special place or is the deed just something in the box - with land so valuable that no fool would ever NOT record the deed? I could see any of these as possibilities.

Remember those comments about renting a place and whether or not you could dig up the yard? That's probably a hint.

That may also explain the 99.99% sure that it's there kind of comments - because you can never be 100% - that someone didn't break/sneak in and get it - BUT - it would be pretty unlikely if the above (or some similar concept) were true.

Ok. Let's say this is true, and you're a creative problem-solver. Wouldn't you just search land deeds in Forrest's name in all four states?

[crm114]

@cj Private land would sure solve a lot of legal issues, it seems to me. I don't think his spot is on private land, but who is to say we aren't supposed to find a pointer of sorts to private land at the ninth clue?

People have interpreted Forrest as ruling out a proxy item, but is it a proxy item if it's a pointer at the ninth clue? I'd grant him poetic license to still throw himself atop the chest at the spot, even if the spot only contains instructions on where it is.

The biggest issue to me is how does he ensure such an arrangement will last 100, even 100 years? Maybe he figures in 1000 years it up to you to negotiate with whoever controls that land (an issue that potentially exists with public lands as well, imo).

[Deleted]

Because it takes 2 keys to open something else special waiting for the finder. One is in the chest and another safely in a holding trust.

[goldilocks]

Jan 12, 2020 12:56:38 GMT -5 davebakedpotato said:

Jan 12, 2020 12:46:28 GMT -5 CJ said:

Here's a thought. The treasure chest is out there. It's on private land, owned by Forrest. When you solve the poem, it takes you to a place where you are able to obtain the "deed" to the land that he owns. In order to retrieve the chest, you have to accept ownership of the land via the deed so that you can legally go onto the land and retrieve the treasure. You have to record the deed with the county in order to make it legally yours - and it's quite possibly a very secure place. That land transfer would be public, so he could check on that....you get the land...and you get the chest and the treasure. Ownership is probably some obscure LLC to ensure that no-one knows he owns it.

Do you need to "look quickly down"...down the page of the deed? Is the blaze his signature? That's a little out of the box and "in a word, yes" and "doesn't point in any direction", right?

If that's the case, would the deed be in the special place, or is the land that he owns the special place or is the deed just something in the box - with land so valuable that no fool would ever NOT record the deed? I could see any of these as possibilities.

Remember those comments about renting a place and whether or not you could dig up the yard? That's probably a hint.

That may also explain the 99.99% sure that it's there kind of comments - because you can never be 100% - that someone didn't break/sneak in and get it - BUT - it would be pretty unlikely if the above (or some similar concept) were true.

Ok. Let's say this is true, and you're a creative problem-solver. Wouldn't you just search land deeds in Forrest's name in all four states?

Land deeds don't have to be in a person's name. They can be in a trust name. In our case a land trust would be ideal for Forrest because he could remain anonymous. There was a property I was researching and it listed the owner of record et al. Et al means there are other owners of record so Forrest could be listed as a second owner of such a property. The wording in the poem is title, not deed. Title refers to ownership of property and a deed is the legal document that transfers title from one person to another. There must be instructions either in the poem or in the chest IMO.

[crm114]

Jan 12, 2020 12:46:28 GMT -5 CJ said:

Remember those comments about renting a place and whether or not you could dig up the yard? That's probably a hint.

Forrest of all people know "you shouldn't dig where you're not supposed to dig." The bells story always bothered me because it doesn't seem like the whole story. Now I know a person could go to a lot of BLM land and dig a 3 to 4 foot hole and 99 percent of the time, no one would even know if you were careful. At the same time, it takes awhile to do that, and would Fenn really take the chance? I'm pretty sure it's technically illegal. Get caught in the wrong area, and you may just be made an example of, and while a fine would not hurt Fenn, I doubt he'd risk doing time, if that's the penalty.

Forest Service and BLM do issue special use permits. There are all sorts of facilities
built on public lands from roads to cabins to ski areas. These people are renting the land and are entitled to improve it. F could very well have held or had a buddy who held some interest in a ranch with a grazing lease. Would they really prosecute him for digging an extra deep posthole for a fence (or whatever) and accidentally putting a bell in it? It seems this would be more Fenns style - bending but not breaking the rules. Fenn or his buddy would likely know ahead of time whether the local representative was going to hassle them.

Now the same could apply to the chest. With Fenns recent references to S-corps and renting, maybe this makes some sense. If an S-corp held the grazing lease, and the finder is offered interest in the S-corp, maybe they are protected on recovery. Some grazing leases in the west consist of 10s of thousands of acres. Even if you uncovered a lease and could tie it to Fenn, does that make your task to find the chest any easier? Are you even sure it's there?

Maybe your shares to the S-corp are in the chest? Its maybe a little more legal or foolproof way to do this for everyone, and perhaps even bury it.

Another thing that's bothered me is does Forrest really expect someone to potentially fly the chest and gold back home right after they finally solve it? I don't know about you, but I'd be just as thrilled finding a chest, a bracelet and some some instructions I could follow at my leisure to recover the rest, and maybe something like an IOU to cover the fees you're going to need to incur. If I were to find the chest filled with its contents, I might just hide the thing in a different location while I thought about it and hired a lawyer. It might be favorable for taxes too - do you owe taxes on something you have neither seen nor taken possession of? From what I understand, the tax due clock starts ticking as soon as you find it and possess it.

[theoretical]

I find the last line of the poem intriguing “I give you title to the gold”. He doesn’t say I give you the gold. Although some think that is simply some sort of legal protection, perhaps FF is stating an obvious truth. There is a title in the chest. To me, this would explain his absolute conviction no one has found the chest. The gold could be somewhere secure that would require the title to access it, even after he passes away.

A couple of “important” nouns might reinforce this. A MW (Merriam-Webster) definition of trove is discovery,find. Doesn’t necessarily mean treasure. Oh yea, it just so happens that discovery means “disclosure” as well. 

And then, he doesn’t say take the gold or treasure and go in peace; he says take the CHEST and go in peace.

My largest question to this theory is why did he say he took two trips in to hid it if there was nothing heavy in the chest? Perhaps only part of the treasure is there?

[heidini]

Jan 16, 2020 22:36:08 GMT -5 theoretical said:

I find the last line of the poem intriguing “I give you title to the gold”. He doesn’t say I give you the gold. Although some think that is simply some sort of legal protection, perhaps FF is stating an obvious truth. There is a title in the chest. To me, this would explain his absolute conviction no one has found the chest. The gold could be somewhere secure that would require the title to access it, even after he passes away.

A couple of “important” nouns might reinforce this. A MW (Merriam-Webster) definition of trove is discovery,find. Doesn’t necessarily mean treasure. Oh yea, it just so happens that discovery means “disclosure” as well. 

And then, he doesn’t say take the gold or treasure and go in peace; he says take the CHEST and go in peace.

My largest question to this theory is why did he say he took two trips in to hid it if there was nothing heavy in the chest? Perhaps only part of the treasure is there?

Forrest has said a few times that the treasure is there waiting for the one who solves the clues, for the one who makes the lines cross in the right place, etc. Forrest makes it sound like the literal treasure is there intact at the treasure site. I think he even said more specific things about taking the treasure items out first and then the treasure box out second.

Do a little bit more research on his words and you will realize that your theory is inconsistent with his words.