|
|
Post by harrytruman on Mar 11, 2020 16:41:50 GMT -5
How can the little girl from India solve WWWH if she needs to touch the water to verify its warm at a specific location? I think when FF tells searchers to dip/stick their toes in the water, he means they need to start over. They should be wearing boots/shoes anyway. Would the LGFI need to touch the water herself to verify its warmth? Does she trust no one else to do so? (Not even credentialed hydrologists, field biologists, conservationists, fish and wildlife managers, etc.?) And if she's such a skeptic, what makes her believe that Forrest even hid the treasure? (Kidding aside, I don't know that warmth needs to be personally verified before BOTG -- but, either way, that doesn't change whether the correct WWWH is actually warm, independent of any individual searcher's confirmation.) |
|
|
|
Post by harrytruman on Mar 11, 2020 18:00:03 GMT -5
I think when he said did you dip your toe in it he meant did you test out your theory. I think this exchange between Forrest and a NY Times reporter (about Cynthia Meachem's WWWH) is more illuminating than the second-hand "dip your toe in it" conversations: F: "Did you ask her to show you the warm water?" Reporter: "Ah...no I didn’t touch the water." F: "See there...she wanted to find a place, so she manufactured a place where warm water halts. There’s no warm water under that bridge, I promise you." To me, Forrest was clearly suggesting that the reporter could have confirmed whether there is "warm water under that bridge" or not by touching it. Yes, he said "show" and she said "touch," but I don't see how he was being metaphorical here, either way. (I don't think he was asking the reporter, "did you test out her theory?") |
|
|
|
Post by edgewalker on Mar 11, 2020 19:40:05 GMT -5
FF says "Warm" means comfortable (not temperature); which means flowing. Until now I have resisted telling them to get back in the box where their thoughts are comfortable and flow more easily. WWWH is a place where water stops flowing. Three ways water halts (stops flowing). 1) Frozen, 2) Blocked (dam), 3) in a basin. We know it's not number two. Odds are when you arrive at WWWH you are going to find frozen water (ice/snow tip ridge) where you look down into a canyon. Saliva in the mouth. Urine in the kidney. Water in a toilet, urinal, sink, bathtub. Amniotic fluid. Blood in the heart if blood water content is considered warm water. Death. I don't think it needs to refer to a geographic feature. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 19:48:58 GMT -5
Didn't Forrest say that the poem is a riddle that if someone wants to find the treasure they first have to solve the riddle? Like a recipe to make a cake the entire poem is needed. I think he said that.
Personally I don't think any one clue gives any confirmation.
I personally think the entire poem as a whole when understanding whatever it's saying to the reader like a riddle is the only way to find the treasure. Anything can be WWH even a statue of Cupid in a fountain where people stop for pictures. The possibilities are astronomical.
|
|
|
|
Post by harrytruman on Mar 11, 2020 21:21:17 GMT -5
FF says "Warm" means comfortable (not temperature); which means flowing. Until now I have resisted telling them to get back in the box where their thoughts are comfortable and flow more easily. WWWH is a place where water stops flowing. Three ways water halts (stops flowing). 1) Frozen, 2) Blocked (dam), 3) in a basin. We know it's not number two. Odds are when you arrive at WWWH you are going to find frozen water (ice/snow tip ridge) where you look down into a canyon. Saliva in the mouth. Urine in the kidney. Water in a toilet, urinal, sink, bathtub. Amniotic fluid. Blood in the heart if blood water content is considered warm water. Death. I don't think it needs to refer to a geographic feature. "Dear Forrest, What’s more important in solving the search, a greater knowledge ('knowlege') of Toponymy or Geography? ~Chris" "I don’t know how Toponymy can help you at all Chris (I had to look that word up). But if you knew the geographic location of each clue it would be a map to the treasure. f" (Questions w Forrest 2017) Based on this exchange, I think each clue has a "geographic location," and I'm not sure how a searcher would identify the geographic location of a (precious?) bodily fluid and marry it to a map. |
|
|
|
Post by edgewalker on Mar 11, 2020 21:51:16 GMT -5
Saliva in the mouth. Urine in the kidney. Water in a toilet, urinal, sink, bathtub. Amniotic fluid. Blood in the heart if blood water content is considered warm water. Death. I don't think it needs to refer to a geographic feature. "Dear Forrest, What’s more important in solving the search, a greater knowledge ('knowlege') of Toponymy or Geography? ~Chris" "I don’t know how Toponymy can help you at all Chris (I had to look that word up). But if you knew the geographic location of each clue it would be a map to the treasure. f" (Questions w Forrest 2017) Based on this exchange, I think each clue has a "geographic location," and I'm not sure how a searcher would identify the geographic location of a (precious?) bodily fluid and marry it to a map. Hart mountain, mouth of a river (even a cold one), stinking river, Pahaska TeePEE. Maybe you need to marry the clues to the map in an unconventional way. Maybe it isn't a location of warm water. It may be a place that relates to a warm water. It could be where one of his kids was born as birth is an event where warm water halts. My point is that perhaps our search for a geographic locstion where warm water halts may be missing the riddle, if there is one, in this clue. |
|
|
|
Post by astree on Mar 11, 2020 21:55:23 GMT -5
I think when he said did you dip your toe in it he meant did you test out your theory. I think this exchange between Forrest and a NY Times reporter (about Cynthia Meachem's WWWH) is more illuminating than the second-hand "dip your toe in it" conversations: F: "Did you ask her to show you the warm water?" Reporter: "Ah...no I didn’t touch the water." F: "See there...she wanted to find a place, so she manufactured a place where warm water halts. There’s no warm water under that bridge, I promise you." Possibly some other info there ... warm water halts, instead of warm waters halt |
|
|
|
Post by harrytruman on Mar 11, 2020 23:04:26 GMT -5
I think this exchange between Forrest and a NY Times reporter (about Cynthia Meachem's WWWH) is more illuminating than the second-hand "dip your toe in it" conversations: F: "Did you ask her to show you the warm water?" Reporter: "Ah...no I didn’t touch the water." F: "See there...she wanted to find a place, so she manufactured a place where warm water halts. There’s no warm water under that bridge, I promise you." Possibly some other info there ... warm water halts, instead of warm waters halt I agree. I thought about that for no. 13 on my list: a correct solution for WWWH probably should work for "waters halt" and "water halts." This also made me think that he actually wanted "water halts" for the poem, but "halt" was slightly closer to "walk," so he made "water" plural (knowing it would work either way). |
|
|
|
Post by Jenny on Mar 12, 2020 5:23:54 GMT -5
Here is what I think I know about WWWH: 1) it is water (not tears or humidity or ice, etc.) 2) it is water that was moving just prior to the “halt” location (and might be moving beyond the halt location as well, if the “halt” is temporary and/or refers to a change in temperature) 3) it is not halted by or otherwise associated with a dam 4) it is warm to the touch (and thus might be considered “comfortable”) 5) it can be identified before going BOTG 6) it is a physical/geographical location that you can “marry” to a map 7) it is identifiable (and thus likely named) on a map of the entire US Rocky Mountains (which might rule out the special trout waters of any particular state) 8) it can be identified without reading TTOTC (though one or more of the good hints, subtle hints, and/or aberrations in the book might help) 9) it can be identified without knowing about or using “head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers” 10) it is a location that an increasing number of searchers correctly identified each search season between 2012 and 2015, at least (though they didn't know they had done so correctly) 11) it is a destination at which non-searchers in the mid 2010s continually arrived (and thus probably still arrive at today), though they were/are oblivious to the location’s connection to Forrest’s poem 12) it is physically in or very near a canyon (into and “down” which a searcher can proceed some significant physical distance by some means other than walking) To me, having a WWWH that checks all of these boxes is essential, but even then nothing will completely confirm that one's WWWH is correct short of holding the treasure chest. . . . Great list..... |
|
|
|
Post by davebakedpotato on Mar 12, 2020 9:46:11 GMT -5
Here is what I think I know about WWWH: 12) it is physically in or very near a canyon (into and “down” which a searcher can proceed some significant physical distance by some means other than walking) To me, having a WWWH that checks all of these boxes is essential, but even then nothing will completely confirm that one's WWWH is correct short of holding the treasure chest. . . . Mr Truman sir, could you expand on point 12 please? What makes you so sure that we do not walk into the canyon? (Taking nfbtftw literally perhaps?) |
|
|
|
Post by harrytruman on Mar 12, 2020 12:37:11 GMT -5
Here is what I think I know about WWWH: 12) it is physically in or very near a canyon (into and “down” which a searcher can proceed some significant physical distance by some means other than walking) To me, having a WWWH that checks all of these boxes is essential, but even then nothing will completely confirm that one's WWWH is correct short of holding the treasure chest. . . . Mr Truman sir, could you expand on point 12 please? What makes you so sure that we do not walk into the canyon? (Taking nfbtftw literally perhaps?) To clarify, I think a searcher very well could walk into the canyon. I phrased it the way I did because I think a searcher has to have the option of proceeding by some means other than walking as well. In other words, I don't think it's a canyon that somehow becomes almost as narrow as the crevasse he described in "Looking for Lewis and Clark." Beyond that, here are some things I consider when interpreting "And take it in the canyon down / Not far, but too far to walk": 1) Cynthia M. and Kristie/kpro have shared a private conversation in which Forrest indicated that the canyon was "right there" next to WWWH. This has no real bearing on walking vs. driving (or whatever); it just tells me that "take it in the canyon down" is the second clue/location and that it's somehow obvious once you've solved WWWH. 2) The two times that Forrest has used the phrase "too far to walk," he was discussing physical distances (fishing the Madison and getting lost in the Gallatins). I have never seen/heard him use that phrase to discuss something metaphorical, and I believe that his use of this phrase was knowing and intentional. (I could make the case for something metaphorical about his nostalgia for the Madison and/or the Gallatins, based in part on the interview with Lorene Mills in which he started to answer a question about "too far to walk" with the words "it's the theory..." But I try not to overthink things.) 3) I think his reference to "too far to walk" in the preface to TFTW was an intended hint/clue. He suggested that the map (cutting off Canada) was an unintended clue, and I've analyzed the debate on that fairly extensively (because I'm not quite convinced that the map was the unintended clue). But either way, that debate isn't relevant to the preface, because if his suggestion that a certain physical distance was "too far to walk" was a hint/clue, then it was an intended hint/clue. (How could it not be? Forrest wrote the preface.) (And note: if 10 miles is "too far to walk," so is every distance greater than 10 miles. In other words, I don't think "10 miles" is the actual hint/clue.) 4) Forrest once told a searcher that if you could solve hoB first and then reverse engineer a solution to WWWH, then you might get other searchers to throw in some gas money. This might have been a throwaway line, but I take it as a suggestion that the distance between WWWH and hoB can be traversed via automobile (thus the need for gas money and therefore the likelihood of a road in and possibly through the canyon). 5a) I think hoB is the third clue. Among many other reasons (which I won't get into here), I can't comprehend how a LGFI could "begin it where warm waters halt" and then could "take it in the canyon down" but couldn't take in the canyon down any physical distance. "Begin it" seems straightforward to me. So does "take it in the canyon down." And if I'm taking something (a quest, a journey, a trip) in some direction ("down"), then I need to know how far I'm going to go in that direction (one step? one mile? one hundred miles?). 5b) Since I think that "take in the canyon down / Not far, but too far to walk" is the second clue in its entirety (it reflects a segment of the path we're taking from location one to location nine), that informs my interpretation of Forrest's many comments about searchers who solved the first two clues but then in most cases "went" and in some cases "walked" right past the third clue (the hoB). This tells me that a searcher can walk from WWWH, through the canyon, and past hoB, but in most cases when searchers have passed hoB, they have been traveling by some means other than walking (most likely, in my mind, by driving). Anyway, these are things that convince me, but I certainly could be wrong, and everyone should feel free to believe other things. . . . |
|
|
|
Post by davebakedpotato on Mar 12, 2020 13:13:42 GMT -5
Mr Truman sir, could you expand on point 12 please? What makes you so sure that we do not walk into the canyon? (Taking nfbtftw literally perhaps?) To clarify, I think a searcher very well could walk into the canyon. I phrased it the way I did because I think a searcher has to have the option of proceeding by some means other than walking as well. In other words, I don't think it's a canyon that somehow becomes almost as narrow as the crevasse he described in "Looking for Lewis and Clark." Beyond that, here are some things I consider when interpreting "And take it in the canyon down / Not far, but too far to walk": 1) Cynthia M. and Kristie/kpro have shared a private conversation in which Forrest indicated that the canyon was "right there" next to WWWH. This has no real bearing on walking vs. driving (or whatever); it just tells me that "take it in the canyon down" is the second clue/location and that it's somehow obvious once you've solved WWWH. 2) The two times that Forrest has used the phrase "too far to walk," he was discussing physical distances (fishing the Madison and getting lost in the Gallatins). I have never seen/heard him use that phrase to discuss something metaphorical, and I believe that his use of this phrase was knowing and intentional. (I could make the case for something metaphorical about his nostalgia for the Madison and/or the Gallatins, based in part on the interview with Lorene Mills in which he started to answer a question about "too far to walk" with the words "it's the theory..." But I try not to overthink things.) 3) I think his reference to "too far to walk" in the preface to TFTW was an intended hint/clue. He suggested that the map (cutting off Canada) was an unintended clue, and I've analyzed the debate on that fairly extensively (because I'm not quite convinced that the map was the unintended clue). But either way, that debate isn't relevant to the preface, because if his suggestion that a certain physical distance was "too far to walk" was a hint/clue, then it was an intended hint/clue. (How could it not be? Forrest wrote the preface.) (And note: if 10 miles is "too far to walk," so is every distance greater than 10 miles. In other words, I don't think "10 miles" is the actual hint/clue.) 4) Forrest once told a searcher that if you could solve hoB first and then reverse engineer a solution to WWWH, then you might get other searchers to throw in some gas money. This might have been a throwaway line, but I take it as a suggestion that the distance between WWWH and hoB can be traversed via automobile (thus the need for gas money and therefore the likelihood of a road in and possibly through the canyon). 5a) I think hoB is the third clue. Among many other reasons (which I won't get into here), I can't comprehend how a LGFI could "begin it where warm waters halt" and then could "take it in the canyon down" but couldn't take in the canyon down any physical distance. "Begin it" seems straightforward to me. So does "take it in the canyon down." And if I'm taking something (a quest, a journey, a trip) in some direction ("down"), then I need to know how far I'm going to go in that direction (one step? one mile? one hundred miles?). 5b) Since I think that "take in the canyon down / Not far, but too far to walk" is the second clue in its entirety (it reflects a segment of the path we're taking from location one to location nine), that informs my interpretation of Forrest's many comments about searchers who solved the first two clues but then in most cases "went" and in some cases "walked" right past the third clue (the hoB). This tells me that a searcher can walk from WWWH, through the canyon, and past hoB, but in most cases when searchers have passed hoB, they have been traveling by some means other than walking (most likely, in my mind, by driving). Anyway, these are things that convince me, but I certainly could be wrong, and everyone should feel free to believe other things. . . . Thanks, well researched and reasoned. The question of which parts of the trail, if any, are driven is of critical importance imo. I like the idea that other searchers went past some clues because they were driving - it does seem more likely while driving vs walking. Hmmmm. |
|
|
|
Post by Jenny on May 1, 2020 11:42:37 GMT -5
If you have your WWWH and Canyon Down, like many searchers are said to have, and were then driving 'NFBTFTW', but went past the other 7 clues...... is there not an obvious place to 'park'? Do they drive until they see an 'obvious place', missing the actual 'put in'.... maybe this location is not a pull off area, road, or anything...maybe it's just 'into the woods'...
Also, maybe there is an obvious place, but you had already passed the 7 clues....and need to go back up to them...
|
|
