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Post by davebakedpotato on Mar 12, 2020 11:05:07 GMT -5
One important thing to answer is whether the clues in the poem mean what they say literally, or if Forrest is being more tricky with the hunt.
So taking the second stanza, do we find some warm waters that halt, go in to a canyon, proceed a distance that is not far but too far to walk and find ourselves below the home of Brown?
Or
Are the warm waters metaphorical/riddles, for example blood, or tears or giving birth, the canyon refers to something other than a canyon, nfbtftw is 'Hells Gate' or 'Yesterday Gulch' etc.
There is some evidence summarised very well in the recent video by Jenny that seems to indicate that warm waters may just be some thermal feature, possibly backed up by Forrest's statememt that there are lots of warm waters halting in those mountains. Plus, there are no riddles drones or ciphers and the poem is straightforward/without subterfuge.
Versus.
Solve the riddle in the poem. How would you discern which literal warm waters halt to choose? No-one's going to find it by accident. Follow the clues in order. You have to 'figure out' where wwh. Forrest was thinking 1000 years down the line etc.
I'm conflicted - is it straightforward or not?
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Post by goldilocks on Mar 12, 2020 11:19:05 GMT -5
Nobody can say for certain, even if some like to say they know. Probably a combination of both which makes it even more difficult. My advice is keep an open mind.
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Post by Jenny on Mar 12, 2020 11:42:49 GMT -5
One important thing to answer is whether the clues in the poem mean what they say literally, or if Forrest is being more tricky with the hunt. So taking the second stanza, do we find some warm waters that halt, go in to a canyon, proceed a distance that is not far but too far to walk and find ourselves below the home of Brown? Or Are the warm waters metaphorical/riddles, for example blood, or tears or giving birth, the canyon refers to something other than a canyon, nfbtftw is 'Hells Gate' or 'Yesterday Gulch' etc. There is some evidence summarised very well in the recent video by Jenny that seems to indicate that warm waters may just be some thermal feature, possibly backed up by Forrest's statememt that there are lots of warm waters halting in those mountains. Plus, there are no riddles drones or ciphers and the poem is straightforward/without subterfuge. Versus. Solve the riddle in the poem. How would you discern which literal warm waters halt to choose? No-one's going to find it by accident. Follow the clues in order. You have to 'figure out' where wwh. Forrest was thinking 1000 years down the line etc. I'm conflicted - is it straightforward or not? And we're told Imagination is important! If so straightforward, why is imagination so important...... |
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Post by Jenny on Mar 13, 2020 5:58:34 GMT -5
It's been mentioned previously, but goes along with this.....
Forrest has told us what 'tarry scant' means and it is literal. He says it means just get out of there.
He's also given his definition of a Blaze to be anything that stands out. That's pretty much literal. Once on the spot, the Blaze might be a bit creative, but will still 'stand out'.
And he has answered a question about how to find the treasure.... we just have to look quickly down, right? He said yes.
All those things are straightforward. It seems the 'directional clues' are straightforward and he doesn't mind saying so.
However, it seems the 'locational/geographical clues' are more cryptic and require more imagination to decipher. These he are very protective on. For it is these that are the puzzle to Forrest.
I think like goldilocks says...it's a mixture....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2020 7:49:31 GMT -5
One important thing to answer is whether the clues in the poem mean what they say literally, or if Forrest is being more tricky with the hunt. So taking the second stanza, do we find some warm waters that halt, go in to a canyon, proceed a distance that is not far but too far to walk and find ourselves below the home of Brown? Or Are the warm waters metaphorical/riddles, for example blood, or tears or giving birth, the canyon refers to something other than a canyon, nfbtftw is 'Hells Gate' or 'Yesterday Gulch' etc. There is some evidence summarised very well in the recent video by Jenny that seems to indicate that warm waters may just be some thermal feature, possibly backed up by Forrest's statememt that there are lots of warm waters halting in those mountains. Plus, there are no riddles drones or ciphers and the poem is straightforward/without subterfuge. Versus. Solve the riddle in the poem. How would you discern which literal warm waters halt to choose? No-one's going to find it by accident. Follow the clues in order. You have to 'figure out' where wwh. Forrest was thinking 1000 years down the line etc. I'm conflicted - is it straightforward or not? There is a quite a difference from straight forward & straightforward. Forrest does not put the two words together. |
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Post by zaphod73491 on Mar 13, 2020 14:51:39 GMT -5
Anomy: there may be a problem with over-interpreting the clear differences between straight forward and straightforward. Forrest treats some compound words about the same way he treats commas: he just seems to use whatever he feels like. Examples from TTOTC: cannon ball (p. 24), clothes line (p. 29), fire wood (p. 44), loud speaker (p. 70), tooth brush (p. 70), shock wave (p. 88), paper boy (p. 98), wash cloths (p. 112), weather vanes (p. 128), and pocket knives (p. 128).
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Post by kaotkbliss on Mar 13, 2020 19:41:15 GMT -5
I also noticed he uses beacon instead of beckon a lot.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2020 20:30:32 GMT -5
Anomy: there may be a problem with over-interpreting the clear differences between straight forward and straightforward. Forrest treats some compound words about the same way he treats commas: he just seems to use whatever he feels like. Examples from TTOTC: cannon ball (p. 24), clothes line (p. 29), fire wood (p. 44), loud speaker (p. 70), tooth brush (p. 70), shock wave (p. 88), paper boy (p. 98), wash cloths (p. 112), weather vanes (p. 128), and pocket knives (p. 128). This is true. There are a few you mentioned that he has done purposely and some not, which puts in on the interpreter to discern. But the words you mentioned don't truly have a different meaning when put together. Straight forward describes the path which motion follows or should follow: to one's front, forward, and in a straight line, without turning. It is usually employed as an adverb, “Go straight forward” or “The path ran straight forward into the forest”, but it could be used as an adjective in limited contexts: “The paths to the side were overgrown, but that straight forward was clear.” Straightforward is an adjective which employs the adverb phrase in figurative senses to mean ‘simple’ —that is, not folded or turning, as the metaphors ‘complicated’ and ‘recursive’ suggest—or ‘honest, frank’—that is, not turning aside from or avoiding the truth, as the metaphors ‘devious’ and ‘evasive’ suggest. The way Forrest has it written makes a difference. If you put his sense/cents twist on the word, you have straight for-word, so who knows? |
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Post by davebakedpotato on Mar 14, 2020 2:19:32 GMT -5
Thanks guys, it's a fair point about straight forward vs straightforward so kudos for pointing that out. The path may literally be forward, in a straight line (or it may not).
Taking Jenny's question, what do we make of nfbtftw then? Literal or not?
Both Shaun Whitehead and Mike from the Forrest Fenn Learning curve suggest that it is Forrest's 'job', via the poem, to lead us to the treasure. Yet there is so much ambiguity I can only think we're missing key ingredients in some way.
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Post by fundamentaldesign on Mar 14, 2020 6:45:34 GMT -5
I like the discussion about if the poem is more literal or metaphorical than straightforward.
I think the clues are literal because of the examples Jenny brought up. I think f even asked how could it mean anything else when he defined tarry scant.
I feel one important part is that the hints are literal too. Though, it may take both figuring out the literal puzzle of a possible hint in the poem then imagination to understand it could be the blaze.
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Post by thrillchaser on Mar 15, 2020 7:33:17 GMT -5
Thanks guys, it's a fair point about straight forward vs straightforward so kudos for pointing that out. The path may literally be forward, in a straight line (or it may not). Taking Jenny's question, what do we make of nfbtftw then? Literal or not? Both Shaun Whitehead and Mike from the Forrest Fenn Learning curve suggest that it is Forrest's 'job', via the poem, to lead us to the treasure. Yet there is so much ambiguity I can only think we're missing key ingredients in some way. forrest doesn't owe us anything |
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Post by goldilocks on Mar 15, 2020 7:59:30 GMT -5
That’s why he put quotes around job. He obviously means the purpose of the poem was to lead us to the treasure
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Post by fundamentaldesign on Mar 16, 2020 6:33:08 GMT -5
The way I look at the imagination part of the scale is to be able to visualize what f did when secreting the treasure. Put yourself in his shoes. I think that’s where kids have an advantage.
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Post by Jenny on Mar 18, 2020 7:45:58 GMT -5
The way I look at the imagination part of the scale is to be able to visualize what f did when secreting the treasure. Put yourself in his shoes. I think that’s where kids have an advantage. That is a very interesting idea..... it would seem very unimaginative, and unlike Forrest, to simply bury the chest and mark the spot with a 'Blaze'.... boring! When you think about that it would seem so out of the ordinary for Forrest to end the Chase in such a simple way. So while the clues may take understanding, it might be how the chest is hidden that will take more use of the imagination, and so more use of the imagination to 'find' ...... This might make his Blaze unique.....has to stand out, but could be something 'imaginative'...... |
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Post by Jenny on Mar 20, 2020 6:23:21 GMT -5
Seems the difference between Metaphorical and Literal is also whether anything can be confirmed. If literal, moreso. If Metaphorical- interpretations (and options) are basically endless since we each apply our own imaginations into it.
But the key is to apply 'Forrest's' imagination to it......and that is why learning more about the man is so important...
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