Forrest says no shortcuts - Sad for Little Girl from India

[Jenny]

Let's discuss shortcuts of the poem..... or exactly what is a shortcut in Forrest's mind?


In the Six Q with Shaun Whitehead, he felt, Wise couldn't refer to something like 'Owl Creek', because that would be like a short cut. Searchers could 'think' of that without it being found by following previous clues, and move on, or back, from there. (example used to only offer the point was 'if you've been wise'= owl creek).

Is this what Forrest had in mind though, when he said no shortcuts?

Forrest says we are to begin with the first clue, and follow the others to the treasure. One way this no shortcut theory can be taken is that it suggests a line from the poem with the clues, after the first two clues (remember the LGFI), cannot be solved until BOTG.....


Another example would be Brown Canyon for hoB. Short cut! Searchers can think/find that without ever finding WWWH first- and move on, or back, from there.


With this shortcut theory, it could be said that if your hoB, place of meek, anything after the first two clues (because those two seem to go hand in hand, and that's all the LGFI could get), can be found without going BOTG at your WWWH/Canyon, then it is wrong...because that is a short cut?

Or is Forrest's short cut comment less strict?

It might be asked is something like 'Owl Creek' really a short cut? Forrest could feel that unless you started a WWWH, and followed the other clues, you wouldn't know Owl Creek is the correct use for the poem...therefore it isn't a shortcut...

....or is it?

We do have him saying we can move with confidence..... how would we do that?

[davebakedpotato]

Mar 12, 2020 15:11:37 GMT -5 Jenny said:

Let's discuss shortcuts of the poem..... or exactly what is a shortcut in Forrest's mind?


In the Six Q with Shaun Whitehead, he felt, Wise couldn't refer to something like 'Owl Creek', because that would be like a short cut. Searchers could 'think' of that without it being found by following previous clues, and move on, or back, from there. (example used to only offer the point was 'if you've been wise'= owl creek).

Is this what Forrest had in mind though, when he said no shortcuts?

Forrest says we are to begin with the first clue, and follow the others to the treasure. One way this no shortcut theory can be taken is that it suggests a line from the poem with the clues, after the first two clues (remember the LGFI), cannot be solved until BOTG.....


Another example would be Brown Canyon for hoB. Short cut! Searchers can think/find that without ever finding WWWH first- and move on, or back, from there.


With this shortcut theory, it could be said that if your hoB, place of meek, anything after the first two clues (because those two seem to go hand in hand, and that's all the LGFI could get), can be found without going BOTG at your WWWH/Canyon, then it is wrong...because that is a short cut?

Or is Forrest's short cut comment less strict?

It might be asked is something like 'Owl Creek' really a short cut? Forrest could feel that unless you started a WWWH, and followed the other clues, you wouldn't know Owl Creek is the correct use for the poem...therefore it isn't a shortcut...

....or is it?

We do have him saying we can move with confidence..... how would we do that?

This is worth some thought - I think it has implications for how many of the clues are *named* on maps/GE and the possibility that some of the route is driven.
On the other hand, if only the first two clues are named on a map, how do we identify the other seven, especially since Forrest said you could in theory solve most of the clues from home.

Confusing, as always!

[dalby2020]

I don't get how a treasure in the appalachians would be any better for that girl in India.

My thought is that he means no shortcuts exist. You need to solve all the clues to find the treasure. One may solve some of the poem but not have the full picture.
I do believe that all can be solved before BOTG.

[goldilocks]

I think no shortcuts means no clue can be solved in isolation of the others. The big picture=the whole poem. This is probably why he said it is futile to try and solve hoB for instance. We need all of the ingredients working together to achieve the final outcome.

[zaphod73491]

Using the example of home of Brown, suppose the reason you can't ~confidently~ identify it without first solving WWWH and canyon down is that (like the blaze) there are simply too many possibilities? (Btw, I do agree with Jenny's example of "Brown Canyon" on the Arkansas River: too obvious, was certainly considered by some searchers very early on, and YET the early searchers had at most two clues solved.)

[Jenny]

Mar 12, 2020 18:24:03 GMT -5 zaphod73491 said:

Using the example of home of Brown, suppose the reason you can't ~confidently~ identify it without first solving WWWH and canyon down is that (like the blaze) there are simply too many possibilities? (Btw, I do agree with Jenny's example of "Brown Canyon" on the Arkansas River: too obvious, was certainly considered by some searchers very early on, and YET the early searchers had at most two clues solved.)

I know the following Q/A doesn't conclude there aren't 'many home of Browns', like there seems to be with WWWH and the Blaze, but it does tip the scale a little towards the home of Brown to more unique than those.


FQ posted 2/23/18

FF, you say “There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt.” My question- Is there more than 1 home of Brown? Thanks, Jill

No Jill, there is only one home of Brown in my poem. f

mysteriouswritings.com/mws-2018-and-2019-featured-questions-with-forrest-fenn-trip-to-yellowstone-and-other-facts/

[zaphod73491]

Hi Jenny: my feeling is that the further you get through the clues, the more generic the clue is, and thus the less unique. This would be a good way to thwart solving the clues out of order (shortcuts). So, there are "many" places where warm waters halt, even more canyons, even more potential homes of Brown, endless put-ins, paddleless creeks and waters high galore, and of course the "billion blazes." Brown (as a color, for instance) is such a common word, with dozens of synonyms; home, too, has many interpretations, but more importantly there are millions of "put ins" in the Rockies. If it was possible to truly "KNOW" you had correctly identified hoB, then it's easy to understand how you might work backward to WWWH since you'd be going from clues with lots of potential answers in the direction of clues with fewer answers. (This is all somewhat moot, since you can't know you have the correct hoB.)

[thrillchaser]

I think you can shortcut the solution. it would be a guess but if you like a creek and think it is the creek in the poem, what's to say you can't find the blaze from there.

[zaphod73491]

Mar 17, 2020 11:47:36 GMT -5 thrillchaser said:

I think you can shortcut the solution. it would be a guess but if you like a creek and think it is the creek in the poem, what's to say you can't find the blaze from there.

For what it's worth, that's not how my blaze works. It can't be guessed; you must be led to it by the preceding clues, and IMO you will never find it in the field if you haven't solved it from home.

[me9]

Question posted 6/20/2014:

I have a question for Mr. Fenn:

When you hid your treasures, did you take the same path that is described in the poem, or were you able to skip some of the steps because of your familiarity with the area?

Thank you Curtis

The clues should be followed in order Curtis. There is no other way to my knowlege.f

mysteriouswritings.com/questions-with-forrest-fenn-and-the-thrill-of-the-chase/questions-with-fenn-archive-1/

[goldilocks]

His use of the word 'knowledge' in the quote above is interesting and to me implies that we should follow the clues in the poem and not on the ground. We need to decipher his 'knowledge'. I don't think he's simply saying his knowledge of where the chest is. I think this quote has a deeper meaning.

[astree]

Mar 18, 2020 9:57:40 GMT -5 goldilocks said:

His use of the word 'knowledge' in the quote above is interesting and to me implies that we should follow the clues in the poem and not on the ground. We need to decipher his 'knowledge'. I don't think he's simply saying his knowledge of where the chest is. I think this quote has a deeper meaning.

I read it two ways:

1) there is no other way, as far as i know
2) there is now other way to get the information that i have (which could include more than the chest location)

[Deleted]

Mar 12, 2020 15:11:37 GMT -5 Jenny said:

Let's discuss shortcuts of the poem..... or exactly what is a shortcut in Forrest's mind?


In the Six Q with Shaun Whitehead, he felt, Wise couldn't refer to something like 'Owl Creek', because that would be like a short cut. Searchers could 'think' of that without it being found by following previous clues, and move on, or back, from there. (example used to only offer the point was 'if you've been wise'= owl creek).

Is this what Forrest had in mind though, when he said no shortcuts?

Forrest says we are to begin with the first clue, and follow the others to the treasure. One way this no shortcut theory can be taken is that it suggests a line from the poem with the clues, after the first two clues (remember the LGFI), cannot be solved until BOTG.....


Another example would be Brown Canyon for hoB. Short cut! Searchers can think/find that without ever finding WWWH first- and move on, or back, from there.

FF, you say “There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt.” My question- Is there more than 1 home of Brown? Thanks, Jill

No Jill, there is only one home of Brown in my poem. f

If I am reading this correctly is he saying that the only home of Brown is only located in his poem? Jill mentioned the Rocky mountains for where wwh and asked is there more than one home of brown also implying in the Rockies and his response was, there is only one and it's in his poem.
So what does this mean? It's not a physical place? Or would his answer been different if she included the Rockies in her main question?

[seannm]

Mar 12, 2020 16:50:12 GMT -5 goldilocks said:

I think no shortcuts means no clue can be solved in isolation of the others. The big picture=the whole poem. This is probably why he said it is futile to try and solve hoB for instance. We need all of the ingredients working together to achieve the final outcome.

Goldi,

I wholeheartedly agree with the idea that no clue can be solved by itself, I believe that you need to understand the poem as a whole, the bigger picture so to speak. Now It is not possible that the following clue may then provide confidence that you correctly solved the previously clue? But with that said I am of the opinion that there is no confirmation that you got any clue correct until recovery.

Seannm

[Jenny]

Mar 19, 2020 11:49:31 GMT -5 seannm said:

Mar 12, 2020 16:50:12 GMT -5 goldilocks said:

I think no shortcuts means no clue can be solved in isolation of the others. The big picture=the whole poem. This is probably why he said it is futile to try and solve hoB for instance. We need all of the ingredients working together to achieve the final outcome.

Goldi,

I wholeheartedly agree with the idea that no clue can be solved by itself, I believe that you need to understand the poem as a whole, the bigger picture so to speak. Now It is not possible that the following clue may then provide confidence that you correctly solved the previously clue? But with that said I am of the opinion that there is no confirmation that you got any clue correct until recovery.

Seannm

I agree with these thoughts as well......

However, I do still question exactly what is a shortcut?