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Post by theoretical on Apr 6, 2020 14:15:56 GMT -5
FF has made multiple comments about the order of the clues. Most of these are along the lines of they are consecutive, contiguous, etc. However, he has only identified WWWH as the first clue.
One quote has always stuck out to me: “I don’t know that anybody has told me the clues in the right order.”
So this raises a question in my mind: Are the clues consecutive on the ground but not in the poem? Could the clues jump around in the poem?
Let me provide a simple example. You start at WWWH. You take it in the canyon down. You drive past the home of Brown to a physical NFBTFTW. You may or may not put in exactly at that spot. This would be contiguous on the ground but would not be in the poem, as it would split the line PIBTHOB.
Others may have a better example of this.
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Post by zaphod73491 on Apr 6, 2020 15:48:33 GMT -5
Hi Theoretical: I'm not sure the following Featured Question helps much if at all, but perhaps something can be gleaned from it:
MW Featured Question: Order of Clues and Hints (12/11/2014): "Dear Mr. Fenn, You say the clues in the poem are to be followed in consecutive order. You have also said the book holds subtle hints. Are these ‘subtle hints’ in consecutive order (in relation to how they help with clues in the poem) too? ~ Thank you, joseph."
FF: "That's right joseph, you should start with the first clue and follow the others consecutively to the treasure. Hints in the book are not that organized. f"
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Post by goldilocks on Apr 6, 2020 15:55:16 GMT -5
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Post by theoretical on Apr 6, 2020 15:58:13 GMT -5
Hi Theoretical: I'm not sure the following Featured Question helps much if at all, but perhaps something can be gleaned from it: MW Featured Question: Order of Clues and Hints (12/11/2014): "Dear Mr. Fenn, You say the clues in the poem are to be followed in consecutive order. You have also said the book holds subtle hints. Are these ‘subtle hints’ in consecutive order (in relation to how they help with clues in the poem) too? ~ Thank you, joseph." FF: "That's right joseph, you should start with the first clue and follow the others consecutively to the treasure. Hints in the book are not that organized. f" Hi Zap, yes, that is one of the several quotes he has made about consecutive order. But I’m questioning when he says “the clues in the poem are to be followed in consecutive order”, is he saying the clues are written in consecutive order? If so, it seems everyone could tell him the clues in the right order? |
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Post by theoretical on Apr 6, 2020 16:01:47 GMT -5
Thanks Goldi. I appreciate you posting this link. Maybe my questioning this is off but I’m still not seeing where he says the clues are written in consecutive order. I’m only questioning this because if they are written in consecutive order couldn’t everyone tell him the correct order? |
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Post by goldilocks on Apr 6, 2020 16:23:35 GMT -5
Thanks Goldi. I appreciate you posting this link. Maybe my questioning this is off but I’m still not seeing where he says the clues are written in consecutive order. I’m only questioning this because if they are written in consecutive order couldn’t everyone tell him the correct order? You are totally right to question it. The way he words almost everything leaves wiggle room for interpretation. Seeing that there is no confirmation of what the clues even are I guess it’s not surprising that nobody has told them to him in the right order. Step 1 figure out what a clue is, step 2 put them in order (if they aren’t already). |
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dalby2020
Full Member
Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it.
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Post by dalby2020 on Apr 6, 2020 17:10:14 GMT -5
I think there is definitely a temporal component to the poem where he asks the reader to imagine a time in the not far past. The clues might be consecutive with regard to the timeframe of the poem. This leaves room for one or more later clues in the first stanza.
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Post by harrytruman on Apr 6, 2020 17:48:06 GMT -5
FF has made multiple comments about the order of the clues. Most of these are along the lines of they are consecutive, contiguous, etc. However, he has only identified WWWH as the first clue. One quote has always stuck out to me: “I don’t know that anybody has told me the clues in the right order.” So this raises a question in my mind: Are the clues consecutive on the ground but not in the poem? Could the clues jump around in the poem? Let me provide a simple example. You start at WWWH. You take it in the canyon down. You drive past the home of Brown to a physical NFBTFTW. You may or may not put in exactly at that spot. This would be contiguous on the ground but would not be in the poem, as it would split the line PIBTHOB. Others may have a better example of this. Based on the context of that statement, including the question he was answering, I think Forrest was talking about what the clues represent. He was saying that no one has told him what the clues represent (or, the actual locations that can be "married to a map") in the correct order. He's also stated, essentially, that searchers should follow the clues in the poem like they are a set of directions (begin the journey at point A, then "take it" from point A to point B and "put in," then "from there" you go to point C, etc.). Personally, nothing Forrest has stated makes me think he would have put the directions in the poem in some order that didn't match the actual order of the actual locations/waypoints on the ground. For what it's worth, I do think there are a couple of correct clues/locations that searchers might have mentioned to him either in isolation or as part of otherwise incorrect solutions. |
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Post by zaphod73491 on Apr 6, 2020 17:48:45 GMT -5
Hi Theoretical: I'm not sure the following Featured Question helps much if at all, but perhaps something can be gleaned from it: MW Featured Question: Order of Clues and Hints (12/11/2014): "Dear Mr. Fenn, You say the clues in the poem are to be followed in consecutive order. You have also said the book holds subtle hints. Are these ‘subtle hints’ in consecutive order (in relation to how they help with clues in the poem) too? ~ Thank you, joseph." FF: "That's right joseph, you should start with the first clue and follow the others consecutively to the treasure. Hints in the book are not that organized. f" Hi Zap, yes, that is one of the several quotes he has made about consecutive order. But I’m questioning when he says “the clues in the poem are to be followed in consecutive order”, is he saying the clues are written in consecutive order? If so, it seems everyone could tell him the clues in the right order? As Goldilocks points out, Forrest always seems to leave himself some wiggle room on interpretation. Still, I'm having a hard time figuring out how one could ~physically~ follow the clues out of order. To use Forrest's cake recipe example, it would be analogous to skipping over a step and then executing it later (e.g. add the eggs after you've cooked the rest in the oven). But if we indeed *are* supposed to execute the steps/clues in an order other than in the temporal order in which they appear in the poem, then the poem would have to somehow tell us explicitly how to do that. If we only know that WWWH is the first clue (i.e. our initial destination), but the remaining 8 clues are in any way scrambled, then we've got a real problem because there are 40320 different ways to order those remaining eight. So I don't think that's workable.
The fact that Forrest draws a distinction between how the book's subtle hints are "not that organized," means that the poem's clues must be somewhat more (if not completely) organized. But we come full circle to how a searcher could come to tell him the clues in the wrong order.
So here's my thought: what if someone gave him the correct answers to Forrest's clues 1, 2 and 4, but they mistakenly referred to them as clues 1, 2 and 3: in other words, leaving out an ingredient. Forrest would be accurate in saying that they hadn't given him all the clues. But he could obfuscate that statement a bit by saying they hadn't given him all the clues in the right order. It's still a true statement. What do you think?
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Post by goldilocks on Apr 6, 2020 19:12:06 GMT -5
I don't think we should physically follow the clues out of order because they are contiguous, but did he mean contiguous in the poem or on the ground? Consecutive is more complicated. One definition of consecutive is 'marked by logical sequence'. This may be where time comes in to play. Temporal order in which they appear IN THE POEM is different from temporal order in which they appear in Forrest's LIFE for example. So could the clues be contiguous on the ground but consecutive in the poem? Consecutive as in chronological order (of Forrest's life). What if he said consecutive and meant chronological oh boy...maybe that's what he meant by "I don’t know that anybody has told me the clues in the right order.”
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Post by theoretical on Apr 6, 2020 19:19:40 GMT -5
Hi Zap, yes, that is one of the several quotes he has made about consecutive order. But I’m questioning when he says “the clues in the poem are to be followed in consecutive order”, is he saying the clues are written in consecutive order? If so, it seems everyone could tell him the clues in the right order? As Goldilocks points out, Forrest always seems to leave himself some wiggle room on interpretation. Still, I'm having a hard time figuring out how one could ~physically~ follow the clues out of order. To use Forrest's cake recipe example, it would be analogous to skipping over a step and then executing it later (e.g. add the eggs after you've cooked the rest in the oven). But if we indeed *are* supposed to execute the steps/clues in an order other than in the temporal order in which they appear in the poem, then the poem would have to somehow tell us explicitly how to do that. If we only know that WWWH is the first clue (i.e. our initial destination), but the remaining 8 clues are in any way scrambled, then we've got a real problem because there are 40320 different ways to order those remaining eight. So I don't think that's workable.
The fact that Forrest draws a distinction between how the book's subtle hints are "not that organized," means that the poem's clues must be somewhat more (if not completely) organized. But we come full circle to how a searcher could come to tell him the clues in the wrong order.
So here's my thought: what if someone gave him the correct answers to Forrest's clues 1, 2 and 4, but they mistakenly referred to them as clues 1, 2 and 3: in other words, leaving out an ingredient. Forrest would be accurate in saying that they hadn't given him all the clues. But he could obfuscate that statement a bit by saying they hadn't given him all the clues in the right order. It's still a true statement. What do you think?
I like leaving out a clue as a possible explanation. That seems logical to me and most probable. Thanks for sharing that. But to answer your concern above, “what if” the poem riddle went as follows (just a complete made up example: 1) Begin it WWWH, 2) from there it’s no place for the meek, 3) take it in the canyon down, 4) there’ll be no paddle up your creek, etc. These clues would be consecutive on the ground but not in the poem. Certainly, there would have to be a key to decipher the right order. After 10 years of failed solves from the search community, I will keep my mind open to the possibility this could be the one thing we are all missing. But most likely your explanation is correct and I have simply been self quarantined for way too long with too much time to overthink. |
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Post by seannm on Apr 6, 2020 19:39:11 GMT -5
FF has made multiple comments about the order of the clues. Most of these are along the lines of they are consecutive, contiguous, etc. However, he has only identified WWWH as the first clue. One quote has always stuck out to me: “I don’t know that anybody has told me the clues in the right order.” So this raises a question in my mind: Are the clues consecutive on the ground but not in the poem? Could the clues jump around in the poem? Let me provide a simple example. You start at WWWH. You take it in the canyon down. You drive past the home of Brown to a physical NFBTFTW. You may or may not put in exactly at that spot. This would be contiguous on the ground but would not be in the poem, as it would split the line PIBTHOB. Others may have a better example of this. Theoretical, This is something that I have hypothesized many times, and precisely why I have said the the first stanza can still be a clue even though Forrest says the “first” clue is: begin it where warm waters halt. Last week I appeared on a YouTube channel and discussed this very topic. Here is the link to that video. Go to around the 2hour mark, we are talking about the blaze and then we go into talking about the order of the clues. youtu.be/SdQyCPesT-M?t=7196ETA: Here is a video from July 2018 where we discuss the "structure" of them poem which alludes to there being an order which may not be as apparent as we see it in the poem. www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFOiSgIu4wgSeannm |
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Post by crm114 on Apr 6, 2020 19:53:38 GMT -5
The context of this quote is as follows: www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9czRin3Tas&list=PLg2bCqbxRU9VRTmYsKwrL8q08qvwLSMnk&index=24This is from 2017 and has always been puzzling. I do not think it means anyone had all nine clues, but out of order. There are clues and there are clue answers. Given that just two years before, he said someone had maybe 3 or 4 clues solved, it's unlikely people had progressed much beyond that. It's possible he is talking about a single person identifying all 9 clues in the poem (but not in the right order, and not necessarily with any solutions) but I kinda doubt that too. I think we'd just be guessing at what is a clue and what is not. It's possible he's talking of all searchers in aggregate. There are many that have identified WWWH, and perhaps there are individuals who have identified some of Clues 2 through 9, but may have the wrong WWWH. In other words, if Forrest could pick and choose clues from various searchers, he could assemble the entire solution. None of the above make much sense to me from what I know. I don't think for instance it's even possible to know the answer to say Clue 6 or maybe even know what line of the poem it is without knowing Clues 1 through 5. I am not convinced the clues are written in consequtive order, either. There is a chronological order to the poem which may determine the order. It's not the same as the line reading order of the poem. |
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Post by theoretical on Apr 6, 2020 20:02:37 GMT -5
FF has made multiple comments about the order of the clues. Most of these are along the lines of they are consecutive, contiguous, etc. However, he has only identified WWWH as the first clue. One quote has always stuck out to me: “I don’t know that anybody has told me the clues in the right order.” So this raises a question in my mind: Are the clues consecutive on the ground but not in the poem? Could the clues jump around in the poem? Let me provide a simple example. You start at WWWH. You take it in the canyon down. You drive past the home of Brown to a physical NFBTFTW. You may or may not put in exactly at that spot. This would be contiguous on the ground but would not be in the poem, as it would split the line PIBTHOB. Others may have a better example of this. Theoretical, This is something that I have hypothesized many times, and precisely why I have said the the first stanza can still be a clue even though Forrest says the “first” clue is: begin it where warm waters halt. Last week I appeared on a YouTube channel and discussed this very topic. Here is the link to that video. Go to around the 2hour mark, we are talking about the blaze and then we go into talking about the order of the clues. youtu.be/SdQyCPesT-M?t=7196ETA: Here is a video from July 2018 where we discuss the "structure" of them poem which alludes to there being an order which may not be as apparent as we see it in the poem. www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFOiSgIu4wgSeannm Sean - thanks for posting that for those of us that don’t have the patience to watch 2 hour YouTube’s 😀. I see you are thinking along these lines. Do you mind saying if you have developed a solve using this logic? |
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Post by seannm on Apr 7, 2020 9:26:10 GMT -5
Theoretical, This is something that I have hypothesized many times, and precisely why I have said the the first stanza can still be a clue even though Forrest says the “first” clue is: begin it where warm waters halt. Last week I appeared on a YouTube channel and discussed this very topic. Here is the link to that video. Go to around the 2hour mark, we are talking about the blaze and then we go into talking about the order of the clues. youtu.be/SdQyCPesT-M?t=7196ETA: Here is a video from July 2018 where we discuss the "structure" of them poem which alludes to there being an order which may not be as apparent as we see it in the poem. www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFOiSgIu4wgSeannm Sean - thanks for posting that for those of us that don’t have the patience to watch 2 hour YouTube’s 😀. I see you are thinking along these lines. Do you mind saying if you have developed a solve using this logic? Theoretical, I have been in the same general area since August 2016 using this same thought process. Seannm |
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