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Post by Bownarrow on Apr 27, 2020 1:34:39 GMT -5
Q. Mr. Fenn, you were in the business of buying and selling antiques for many years. The history of an object is very important to its value. How were you able to always determine that what you sold was authentic? ~Martha A. from Peoria.
A.... I’ve learned to look at traders with a jaundiced eye, but am cognizant that provenience is important....
link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4419-6376-5_8
An essential term in archaeology is provenience. Provenience has two meanings: the place of discovery and the place of origin. The provenience of an artifact can be the place where it was found in excavations – that is a very important piece of information.
Provenience also means the place of origin, or source, the place from where an artifact, object, or person came; the term might refer to the place of manufacture. Thus, one should be clear about the precise usage.
If ff truly believed that the chest dated from 1150 AD then it seems that he was less than thorough in checking it's provenience.
The use of the word "provenience" looks like it could be a clue telling us to look into the provenience of the chest. Similarly by misstating the provenience of the chest it could be that he is hinting to us to look into it.
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Post by astree on Apr 27, 2020 5:31:01 GMT -5
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Interesting that “provenance” wasnt used...
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Post by heidini on Apr 27, 2020 6:55:16 GMT -5
. Interesting that “provenance” wasnt used... Was Forrest objecting to the French form or the French origin of the word? provenience (n.) 1881, a Latinization of provenance, or else from Latin provenientem (nominative proveniens), present participle of provenire "come forth" (see provenance). "Preferred to PROVENANCE by those who object to the French form of the latter" [OED]. provenance (n.) 1785, from French provenance "origin, production," from provenant, present participle of Middle French provenir "come forth, arise, originate," from Latin provenire "come forth, originate, appear, arise," from pro "forth" (see pro-) + venire "to come," from a suffixed form of PIE root *gwa- "to go, come." |
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Post by astree on Apr 27, 2020 7:45:44 GMT -5
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Thats hard to say without knowing more.
I noticed that povenience has the "nein" from the poems first line, and CE from the chest lid. Then again, provenance has the CE too.
PROVE NIEN CE
NO EVEN PRICE
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Post by ironwill on Apr 27, 2020 19:54:23 GMT -5
I'm just postulating.... but what if Forrest was declaring BOTH....the ORIGIN... AND.... DISCOVERY? o.o
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Post by Bownarrow on Apr 28, 2020 2:14:15 GMT -5
I'm just postulating.... but what if Forrest was declaring BOTH....the ORIGIN... AND.... DISCOVERY? o.o Ironwill,
That is what I have been wondering about and looking into.
The site above was intersting if only for the fact that the design on the brass/bronze casket , seems similar in style to ff's.
Origin: Europe, ca. 1870
The dating of ca. 1870 is consistent with the Gothic Revival , which would also be consistent with DIA's "19th century" date for their chest.
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Post by Bownarrow on Apr 28, 2020 3:22:13 GMT -5
htt and maker nameps://www.ebay.ca/itm/Antique-Erhard-Sohne-Gothic-Bronze-Box-Germany-German-Religious-Art-Repousse/192977242614?hash=item2cee5709f6:g:5~AAAOSwkq5c7fwK#viTabs_0
Another German Gothic style bronze casket and maker name.
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Post by Bownarrow on Apr 28, 2020 3:49:02 GMT -5
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Post by Bownarrow on Apr 28, 2020 7:58:49 GMT -5
The name of the city in Germany where the chest illustrated in Trachten und Geratschafte is/was located in the museum, is called SigmaringenSigmaringen has some interesting anagrams:
Enigma's grin
Mining gears Aging miners Raining gems Gems in grain A merging sin
among others.
I particularly like "Enigma's grin" since it reminds me of the smile of the sphinx.
"Raining gems" is also particularly evocative!
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Post by Bownarrow on Apr 28, 2020 22:13:50 GMT -5
If you compare the fronts of the two boxes below, this one (below, top) and mine (below, bottom) you can see they are identical, except the lock on mine is not functional, suggesting it is copied from the other one.
Is the lock on ff's chest a functioning lock?
My understanding is that there is a key to the chest but that it is inside the chest and that the chest is unlocked.
It has always seemed strange to me that the chest was left unlocked. Could this be because the lock is not a functioning lock?
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Post by Bownarrow on Apr 28, 2020 22:26:11 GMT -5
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Post by Bownarrow on Apr 28, 2020 23:20:17 GMT -5
theses.gla.ac.uk/76175/1/13819005.pdfThe first evidence we have for this full-fledged Siege of the Castle of Love acted out as part of a festival at Treviso in 1214.22. The castle was fortified with exotic materials and animal skins.They fought against the assault with apples dates,tarts flowers,and spices that were fragrant of smell and fair to see.
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