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Post by crm114 on May 5, 2020 10:13:03 GMT -5
I can't count the number of times I've heard that the 15 years working on the poem story does not add up. Some think he must have started in 1988 when he got cancer and thus could have hid it as early 2003 or some such. The following pegs the start of the chest to the meeting with Ralph Lauren, which was in 1996 and thus accounts for the ~15 years to finish the poem in 2010, if you assume he started that too. I'm sure a lot of people know this, I just never hear people say "Fenn started the poem after he met Ralph Lauren in 1996." This does not conflict with TTOTC, imo, as you can imagine what Ralph's words might have got f thinking about after he just beat cancer a few years earlier. This sorta makes me wonder if Ralph Lauren isn't a longshot candidate for the 200 footer who knew f well and didn't need the money. Lest you think he wouldn't be going in the mountains with a good view like that, drive by his ranch outside Ridgway, CO and you'll have a different perspective. mishpacha.com/fenns-treasure/The Thrill of the Chase In 1988, Fenn was diagnosed with cancer and was given a short time to live. He was 58 years old. Fenn spent his time at home, surrounded by more than 5,000 of his beloved artifacts, while his friends and loved ones came to visit him. Apparently, it was none other than Ralph Lauren himself who gave Forrest the idea. It was 1996, and Ralph Lauren was sitting in Fenn’s living room, eyeing an Indian hat that was decorated with ermine skins and antelope horns. He made an offer to Fenn, who flatly refused to sell it. Ralph Lauren pointed out that Fenn anyway wouldn’t be able to take it with him when he died, to which Fenn jokingly replied, “Well, then I’m not going.” But this got Fenn thinking. (He has a daily habit of thinking for an hour before he gets out of bed in the morning, a practice he strongly recommends). Although he had long retired from his gallery, he still remembered how much fun it was to chase down those elusive artifacts. And then he thought about how much he loved spending time outdoors. And that’s when he decided to fill a treasure chest with ancient valuables, go out into the wilderness of his beloved Rockies and leave it there for someone to find. |
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Post by van on May 5, 2020 11:19:01 GMT -5
Interesting, I have never done any research about the time line on when the treasure was hidden or when he started writing the poem; however, if he did not start writing the poem until 1996 (inspired by RL), you would think he had already recovered from cancer. But he has also mentioned that he changed the poem (after recovering), changing the line from "leave my bones alone" which means he started before fully recovering and before the RL meeting.
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Post by Jenny on May 5, 2020 11:59:00 GMT -5
In the book Forrest writes: (after being diagnosed with cancer)...... "Then one night, after the probability of my fate had finally hit bottom, I got an idea. It had been so much fun building my collection over the decades, why not let others come searching for some of it while I'm still here, and maybe continue looking for it after I'm gone? So I decided to fill a treasure chest with gold and jewels, then secret it- leaving clues on how to find it for any searcher willing to try. It was a perfect match of mind and moment." Forrest goes on to say what he filled it with..... and we know he got better. It's possible the idea came to him in 1988, but the decision on how to 'leave clues' in way of a poem might not have come later...and when he finally decided to act on it... which seems to be inspired by Ralph Lauren..... Forrest talks a bit about both in the following video on Jason Dent's channel... 59:22 Did you make any deliberate mistakes in your poem? In my poem, No, I worked on that poem forever. I can’t tell you how many man hours I have in that poem. And I changed it a lot. How many years would you say you worked on it? I’ve been quoted as saying 15 years, and I don’t doubt that I’ve been quoted as saying that, but my mind is fuzzy about when exactly I did certain things during that time. In 1988 they told me I was going to die…. After a couple weeks I told myself if I’ve got to go, who says I can’t take it with me….. --- Forrest then goes into the RL story....and how he then decided to make the bells, jars, and all...... After RL says, you can't take it with you, he says something like: Without even thinking, I said, Well then I’m not going to go…. Out of that phrase, without me even thinking… all my memoirs had come out… Something happened there…in that 10 seconds….. that night I started thinking …..Who says I can’t take it with me.. As Forrest says, the timing of it all is 'fuzzy'...even to him....and so the various stories we receive are fuzzy too....  |
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Post by crm114 on May 5, 2020 12:13:19 GMT -5
Jenny,
Way to completely blow apart my theory 😂. I guess some aspects of the chase are destined to remain a mystery.
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Post by Jenny on May 5, 2020 13:01:25 GMT -5
I wasn't trying to do that..... sorry.... I was just offering some quotes.... To see if the waters can become clearer... I'm not sure they can be because even Forrest admits to them being a bit muddy....I'm sure it was an emotional time period...and those details might get lost. And now at times, he might say some things that aren't quite precise...understandably.... And here's a quote that certainly won't make them clearer: "So it was 15 years from the time that I got cancer until the time that I hid the treasure chest."... which is in this video: youtu.be/8RzrIu3hMecBut as said, a man is allowed some mistakes...if they are. I don't know. |
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Post by gnossos on May 5, 2020 13:20:53 GMT -5
When he wrote the poem is probably less important then when he first went to his spot.
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Post by crm114 on May 5, 2020 14:22:42 GMT -5
I wasn't trying to do that..... sorry.... I was just offering some quotes.... To see if the waters can become clearer... I'm not sure they can be because even Forrest admits to them being a bit muddy....I'm sure it was an emotional time period...and those details might get lost. And now at times, he might say some things that aren't quite precise...understandably.... And here's a quote that certainly won't make them clearer: "So it was 15 years from the time that I got cancer until the time that I hid the treasure chest."... which is in this video: youtu.be/8RzrIu3hMecBut as said, a man is allowed some mistakes...if they are. I don't know. No worries at all, I was just joking, and I appreciate the quotes. Yes, the 1980s and 1990s were a long time ago. I can understand the confusion / misremembering. This last quote is an obvious misspeak, imo, since I am sure he didn't confuse when he hid the chest at 79 or 80 yo. Looking at all this info together, it seems maybe 1996 may have been the year he got more serious, even if he had some earlier planning or thoughts. It's clear he spent a long time on the poem and thinking either way. |
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Post by crm114 on May 5, 2020 14:35:54 GMT -5
When he wrote the poem is probably less important then when he first went to his spot. I don't know if we know much more than this: illinoisghost.wordpress.com/fenn-quotes/The spot where I hid the treasure was in my mind from the time I first started thinking about the chase. It is special to me and there was never another consideration. I was going to make it work no matter what. In my reverie I often find myself stealing away to that place and I will always consider it to be mine. |
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Post by gnossos on May 5, 2020 14:54:34 GMT -5
When he wrote the poem is probably less important then when he first went to his spot. I don't know if we know much more than this: illinoisghost.wordpress.com/fenn-quotes/The spot where I hid the treasure was in my mind from the time I first started thinking about the chase. It is special to me and there was never another consideration. I was going to make it work no matter what. In my reverie I often find myself stealing away to that place and I will always consider it to be mine. I was strongly interpret this quote telling us when he went to the spot... "George Burns was 100 years old when someone asked him how his health was. He replied, "My health's good, it's my age that's killing me."
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Post by Jenny on May 5, 2020 15:13:26 GMT -5
When he wrote the poem is probably less important then when he first went to his spot. I don't know if we know much more than this: illinoisghost.wordpress.com/fenn-quotes/The spot where I hid the treasure was in my mind from the time I first started thinking about the chase. It is special to me and there was never another consideration. I was going to make it work no matter what. In my reverie I often find myself stealing away to that place and I will always consider it to be mine. Here is that Question for Forrest's reply: Question posted 7/5/2014: mysteriouswritings.com/questions-with-forrest-fenn-and-the-thrill-of-the-chase/Mr. Fenn, Did you choose the hiding location purely because it was special to you, or were there other considerations? (I’m not talking about logistics like transporting yourself there, ease of access, not being spotted). ~Michael Monroe Thanks Michael. The spot where I hid the treasure was in my mind from the time I first started thinking about the chase. It is special to me and there was never another consideration. I was going to make it work no matter what. In my reverie I often find myself stealing away to that place and I will always consider it to be mine alone.f |
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Post by Jenny on May 5, 2020 15:14:16 GMT -5
I think 'MINE ALONE' is important......and missed in the copy....
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Post by gnossos on May 5, 2020 16:00:21 GMT -5
Maybe, but from the standpoint of solving the puzzle, one can logically infer why he went to the area after determining WHEN he went there.
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Post by harrytruman on May 5, 2020 18:01:19 GMT -5
I think Margie Goldsmith was the first to state that the conversation with Ralph Lauren was in 1996, but at the beginning of his Moby Dickens talk (2013), Forrest seems to indicate that the conversation was in 1988 -- around the time he had cancer, was selling his gallery, and various clients were coming to see him in his home.
Forrest has stated numerous times that he acquired the chest in 1988.
In her 2011 Huffington Post story, Goldsmith conveyed Forrest's original plan: "If it comes back, I'm going to grab a pocketful of sleeping pills, take a treasure chest filled with treasure and a copy of my bio; and I'm going to walk out into the desert. Sometime they'll find my bones and the treasure, but my bio will be inside the box, so at least they'll know who I was." That he stated "if it comes back" suggests to me that he firmed up this idea after his cancer was gone. That would mean 1993, and this original (1993) plan seems not to have included a poem.
Doug Preston has stated that Forrest showed him the chest in his vault and explained his plan (including a poem) in "the early 1990s."
If Forrest's repeated references to the "15 years" he worked on the poem are to be believed, and if he hid the chest in 2009 (which looks highly likely to me), and if he finished the poem in his mind before he hid the chest (“I could have written the poem before I hid the treasure chest, but I didn’t”), then he must have started working on the poem no later than 1994.
For me, all of this suggests that he decided to write the poem and started doing so during the second half of 1993 or the first half of 1994 (which also means the conversation with Ralph Lauren couldn't have been as late as 1996).
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Post by zaphod73491 on May 5, 2020 18:23:06 GMT -5
Harry beat me to it -- Margie could easily be mistaken about the 1996 year (she is not infallible). In the same Hemispheres article that Margie mentions Lauren visiting Forrest in 1996 she also states that the 22 turquoise beads in Richard Wetherill's row bracelet were excavated from Mesa Verde in 1903. They weren't -- it was 1888.
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Post by zaphod73491 on May 5, 2020 18:26:58 GMT -5
The start of the Hemispheres article:
"BLAME RALPH LAUREN. In 1996 the designer paid a visit to his friend Forrest Fenn, who lived in Santa
Fe, N.M. Fenn had recently undergone chemo and radiation for kidney cancer, and was told there was
only a 20 percent chance for his survival. He sold his successful Santa Fe art gallery and settled in to
await the inevitable."
Note: "recently undergone" and "sold his successful Santa Fe art gallery". It is well established that both of these events occurred in 1988.
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