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Post by Jenny on Jul 23, 2020 11:17:04 GMT -5
What do you think? Was Forrest's Treasure Chest in Yellowstone National Park?
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Post by indulgenceseeker on Jul 23, 2020 11:27:26 GMT -5
Main reason not YNP, IMO, is it's not accessible year round.
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Post by longfellow on Jul 23, 2020 11:40:38 GMT -5
Main reason not YNP, IMO, is it's not accessible year round.
It was in Yellowstone. The park roads connecting Gardiner, MT with Cooke City-Silvergate, MT (just outside the NE Entrance to the park) is open year round, normally. I say normally, because they were closed to 'visitors' to the park this year due to COVID-19 policy until 01 JUN 2020. The chest was retrieved sometime between 01 JUN (when HWY 212 opened to the park-visiting public) and Forrest's announcement on 06 JUN.
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Post by 49 dollers on Jul 23, 2020 12:13:45 GMT -5
I voted no, and did not search there for these reasons.
Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one.
"There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure."
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Post by longfellow on Jul 23, 2020 12:51:08 GMT -5
I voted no, and did not search there for these reasons. Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one. "There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure." If portions of the full and original quote are left out, it is misleading. Here’s the full quote (bold font by me for emphasis added): "Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one. However, it reminds me of the worn-out axiom, “ If you ain’t the lead dog, the scenery never changes.” When I am in the mountains or in the desert, the last place I want to be is on a trail. Ain’t no adventure in that for me. There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure.f" To me this is more of a Fenn statement aimed at validation of Yellowstone than it is an elimination. Fenn’s entire life is demonstrative of a character that embraces living life to the fullest, without regard to everyone else’s “shoulds” and “should nots.” A life as we would expect it to be lived by a “Maverick” personality. |
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marek
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Post by marek on Jul 23, 2020 13:01:47 GMT -5
I voted no, and did not search there for these reasons. Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one. "There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure." If portions of the full and original quote are left out, it is misleading. Here’s the full quote (bold font by me for emphasis added): "Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one. However, it reminds me of the worn-out axiom, “ If you ain’t the lead dog, the scenery never changes.” When I am in the mountains or in the desert, the last place I want to be is on a trail. Ain’t no adventure in that for me. There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure.f" To me this is more of a Fenn statement aimed at validation of Yellowstone than it is an elimination. Fenn’s entire life is demonstrative of a character that embraces living life to the fullest, without regard to everyone else’s “shoulds” and “should nots.” A life as we would expect it to be lived by a “Maverick” personality. I agree. Forrest also answered to the question "What was your favorite Hike/Trail Yellowstone?": “Trails are not favorites of mine. I always hiked off trails. Why go where everyone else had gone. The rangers didn’t like that, but I did and I was the one doing it. Do you see my logic?” |
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Post by 49 dollers on Jul 23, 2020 13:31:54 GMT -5
If portions of the full and original quote are left out, it is misleading. Here’s the full quote (bold font by me for emphasis added): "Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one. However, it reminds me of the worn-out axiom, “ If you ain’t the lead dog, the scenery never changes.” When I am in the mountains or in the desert, the last place I want to be is on a trail. Ain’t no adventure in that for me. There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure.f" To me this is more of a Fenn statement aimed at validation of Yellowstone than it is an elimination. Fenn’s entire life is demonstrative of a character that embraces living life to the fullest, without regard to everyone else’s “shoulds” and “should nots.” A life as we would expect it to be lived by a “Maverick” personality. I agree. Forrest also answered to the question "What was your favorite Hike/Trail Yellowstone?": “Trails are not favorites of mine. I always hiked off trails. Why go where everyone else had gone. The rangers didn’t like that, but I did and I was the one doing it. Do you see my logic?” With Fenn its....."Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one. However, let me open the door for conspiracy and imagination. Lol, but really maybe he was just covering for himself as it illegal to go off trail in most of the park. |
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marek
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Post by marek on Jul 23, 2020 14:11:50 GMT -5
I agree. Forrest also answered to the question "What was your favorite Hike/Trail Yellowstone?": “Trails are not favorites of mine. I always hiked off trails. Why go where everyone else had gone. The rangers didn’t like that, but I did and I was the one doing it. Do you see my logic?” With Fenn its....."Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one. However, let me open the door for conspiracy and imagination. Lol, but really maybe he was just covering for himself as it illegal to go off trail in most of the park. Sorry, but I dont understand what exactly you are telling me. But you are right so far, as its illegal to go off trail in the thermal areas of the park. However, thats not the most of the park, and in the Lamar Valley you can go wherever you want. Although the rangers don’t see it with pleasure. And Forrest did it and that wasnt illegal. I dont see conspiracy here. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 14:45:32 GMT -5
I agree. Forrest also answered to the question "What was your favorite Hike/Trail Yellowstone?": “Trails are not favorites of mine. I always hiked off trails. Why go where everyone else had gone. The rangers didn’t like that, but I did and I was the one doing it. Do you see my logic?” With Fenn its....."Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one. However, let me open the door for conspiracy and imagination. Lol, but really maybe he was just covering for himself as it illegal to go off trail in most of the park.
It is also very illegal to put a chest in there and start a treasure hunt. Even geocache is not allowed to exist more than six months to a year I think.
If it was found there, FF would spend his money (his estate if dead) fighting federal lawsuits plus he would be held responsible for any rescue costs over the years. He would not risk that... Plus, like you said, Yellowstone is a very dangerous place for amateurs to even be off trail. To top that off, if it was in one of the tons of searched (easy) spots, it would have been found within weeks of being hidden.
My bet is on Bighorn, if not it was somewhere between the Bighorns and Yellowstone park just off the road near a campground probably 500 feet from a place frequently traveled.
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marek
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Post by marek on Jul 23, 2020 15:17:29 GMT -5
With Fenn its....."Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one. However, let me open the door for conspiracy and imagination. Lol, but really maybe he was just covering for himself as it illegal to go off trail in most of the park.
It is also very illegal to put a chest in there and start a treasure hunt. Even geocache is not allowed to exist more than six months to a year I think.
If it was found there, FF would spend his money (his estate if dead) fighting federal lawsuits plus he would be held responsible for any rescue costs over the years. He would not risk that... Plus, like you said, Yellowstone is a very dangerous place for amateurs to even be off trail. To top that off, if it was in one of the tons of searched (easy) spots, it would have been found within weeks of being hidden.
My bet is on Bighorn, if not it was somewhere between the Bighorns and Yellowstone park just off the road near a campground probably 500 feet from a place frequently traveled.
Its not very illegal. Forrest said to the question: But if I find the treasure, and its in a National Park, dont I have to share it with Uncle Sam? "I spent a bunch of money with a lawyer to figure out the question about who owns it if its found on public land, on private property, or on Indian land. And theres all kinds of answers. If its found in a National Park, according to my attorney, the person that finds it is required to take it to the Park Superintendent. The rules are different if you find it on private property. If you find it on Indian land it really gets complicated. As for geocaching you are also wrong. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 15:55:50 GMT -5
It is also very illegal to put a chest in there and start a treasure hunt. Even geocache is not allowed to exist more than six months to a year I think.
If it was found there, FF would spend his money (his estate if dead) fighting federal lawsuits plus he would be held responsible for any rescue costs over the years. He would not risk that... Plus, like you said, Yellowstone is a very dangerous place for amateurs to even be off trail. To top that off, if it was in one of the tons of searched (easy) spots, it would have been found within weeks of being hidden.
My bet is on Bighorn, if not it was somewhere between the Bighorns and Yellowstone park just off the road near a campground probably 500 feet from a place frequently traveled.
Its not very illegal. Forrest said to the question: But if I find the treasure, and its in a National Park, dont I have to share it with Uncle Sam? "I spent a bunch of money with a lawyer to figure out the question about who owns it if its found on public land, on private property, or on Indian land. And theres all kinds of answers. If its found in a National Park, according to my attorney, the person that finds it is required to take it to the Park Superintendent. The rules are different if you find it on private property. If you find it on Indian land it really gets complicated. As for geocaching you are also wrong.
I'm not new to the chase, and not new to running a business and handling leagal issues with my lawyers.
I am well aware of that quote, and unlike many I understood it. It is illegal, ask a real lawyer, I did. I'm not wrong, but suit yourself, some people can't come up with good solutions.
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marek
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Post by marek on Jul 23, 2020 16:50:11 GMT -5
Its not very illegal. Forrest said to the question: But if I find the treasure, and its in a National Park, dont I have to share it with Uncle Sam? "I spent a bunch of money with a lawyer to figure out the question about who owns it if its found on public land, on private property, or on Indian land. And theres all kinds of answers. If its found in a National Park, according to my attorney, the person that finds it is required to take it to the Park Superintendent. The rules are different if you find it on private property. If you find it on Indian land it really gets complicated. As for geocaching you are also wrong.
I'm not new to the chase, and not new to running a business and handling leagal issues with my lawyers.
I am well aware of that quote, and unlike many I understood it. It is illegal, ask a real lawyer, I did. I'm not wrong, but suit yourself, some people can't come up with good solutions.
The lawyer of Forrest isnt a real lawyer then? If you understood this quto better than most of us, please be so kind and tell us what Forrest really told us there. I dont know what my arguments have to do with "some people can't come up with good solutions". I only write what its fact, a geocach isnt limited with six months a year in Yellowstone. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 17:01:41 GMT -5
I'm not new to the chase, and not new to running a business and handling leagal issues with my lawyers.
I am well aware of that quote, and unlike many I understood it. It is illegal, ask a real lawyer, I did. I'm not wrong, but suit yourself, some people can't come up with good solutions.
The lawyer of Forrest isnt a real lawyer then? If you understood this quto better than most of us, please be so kind and tell us what Forrest really told us there. I dont know what my arguments have to do with "some people can't come up with good solutions". I only write what its fact, a geocach isnt limited with six months a year in Yellowstone.
Wrong. And not only are you wrong, this treasure hunt is not the same as a geocache. I suggest you go read up on "Title 36 Code of Federal Regulations". Not only can you NOT abandon property, you need permission to do it in the first place (geocache). I also suggest you look up the value limits on the geocache, I seem to remember $1500, if you exceed that amount of value it isn't a geocache. They have VERY strict rules on geocaches... Treasure hunts such as the chase, due to its value, is not allowed at all.
Also, show me where Forrest or his lawyer makes ANY comments on the legality of using a national park... It didn't happen.
Just move on if you can't research things, it would not have been legal for Forrest to use a national park for anything other than one or more clues, he could NOT have legally left a chest there for 10 years. It wasn't "lost property", that is made clear by the book TTOTC.
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Post by longfellow on Jul 23, 2020 17:45:47 GMT -5
The lawyer of Forrest isnt a real lawyer then? If you understood this quto better than most of us, please be so kind and tell us what Forrest really told us there. I dont know what my arguments have to do with "some people can't come up with good solutions". I only write what its fact, a geocach isnt limited with six months a year in Yellowstone.
Wrong. And not only are you wrong, this treasure hunt is not the same as a geocache. I suggest you go read up on "Title 36 Code of Federal Regulations". Not only can you NOT abandon property, you need permission to do it in the first place (geocache). I also suggest you look up the value limits on the geocache, I seem to remember $1500, if you exceed that amount of value it isn't a geocache. They have VERY strict rules on geocaches... Treasure hunts such as the chase, due to its value, is not allowed at all.
Also, show me where Forrest or his lawyer makes ANY comments on the legality of using a national park... It didn't happen.
Just move on if you can't research things, it would not have been legal for Forrest to use a national park for anything other than one or more clues, he could NOT have legally left a chest there for 10 years. It wasn't "lost property", that is made clear by the book TTOTC.
ogitsumyw,
I'm not convinced that I can use the word "illegal" and feel that I am correct in using that term. 36 CFR Part 2.22 is an "administrative regulation," not a "law" in itself. Regardless, I agree that abandoning property within the confines of a National Park is clearly prohibited by this regulation. What I don't know is what the prescribed sanctions are for the violation of this regulation. My guess, based upon my experience with aviation regulations, is that there are very definite non-criminal sanctions that include fines up to a certain amount.
What I have pointed out here on this blog, and elsewhere, is that if the finder/retriever never self-identifies and never reveals the location, what legal authority is even going to ask any questions? So far, I don't see any legal authorities asking any questions about the location or legality of what has transpired.
Perhaps Forrest had this concept in mind all along:
Barry Peterson: Part of the area includes national parks, national forest, maybe Indian land. What have you figured out, if the treasure is found in one of those areas, who owns it?
Forrest Fenn: This is not something I jumped into superficially. I mean, I tried to think of everything. My geeling is, if you can find the treasure chest, you can have it.
Barry Peterson: But if I find the treasure, and it's in a National Park, don't I have to share it with Uncle Sam?
Forrest Fenn:I spent a bunch of money with a lwyer to figure out the question about who wins it if it's found on public land, on private property, or on Indian land. And, there's all kinds of answeres. If it's found in a National Park, according to my attorney, the person that finds it is required to take it to the Park Superintendent. The rules are different if you find it on private property. If you find it on Indian land it really gets complicated.
Barry Peterson: And the person who finds it has to deal with the legal questions.
Forrest Fenn: Well, if there's a legal question, yeah. What if there's not a legal question? My argument is that the person who finds it is gonna own it.
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Post by longfellow on Jul 23, 2020 17:46:46 GMT -5
Wrong. And not only are you wrong, this treasure hunt is not the same as a geocache. I suggest you go read up on "Title 36 Code of Federal Regulations". Not only can you NOT abandon property, you need permission to do it in the first place (geocache). I also suggest you look up the value limits on the geocache, I seem to remember $1500, if you exceed that amount of value it isn't a geocache. They have VERY strict rules on geocaches... Treasure hunts such as the chase, due to its value, is not allowed at all.
Also, show me where Forrest or his lawyer makes ANY comments on the legality of using a national park... It didn't happen.
Just move on if you can't research things, it would not have been legal for Forrest to use a national park for anything other than one or more clues, he could NOT have legally left a chest there for 10 years. It wasn't "lost property", that is made clear by the book TTOTC.
ogitsumyw,
I'm not convinced that I can use the word "illegal" and feel that I am correct in using that term. 36 CFR Part 2.22 is an "administrative regulation," not a "law" in itself. Regardless, I agree that abandoning property within the confines of a National Park is clearly prohibited by this regulation. What I don't know is what the prescribed sanctions are for its violation. My guess, based upon my experience with aviation regulations, is that there are very definite non-criminal sanctions that include fines up to a certain amount.
Regardless, what I have pointed out here on this blog, and elsewhere, is that if the finder/retriever never self-identifies and never reveals the location, what legal authority is even going to ask any questions? So far, I don't see any legal authorities asking any questions about the location or legality of what has transpired.
Perhaps Forrest had this concept in mind all along:
Barry Peterson: Part of the area includes national parks, national forest, maybe Indian land. What have you figured out, if the treasure is found in one of those areas, who owns it?
Forrest Fenn: This is not something I jumped into superficially. I mean, I tried to think of everything. My feeling is, if you can find the treasure chest, you can have it.
Barry Peterson: But if I find the treasure, and it's in a National Park, don't I have to share it with Uncle Sam?
Forrest Fenn:I spent a bunch of money with a lawyer to figure out the question about who owns it if it's found on public land, on private property, or on Indian land. And, there's all kinds of answers. If it's found in a National Park, according to my attorney, the person that finds it is required to take it to the Park Superintendent. The rules are different if you find it on private property. If you find it on Indian land it really gets complicated.
Barry Peterson: And the person who finds it has to deal with the legal questions.
Forrest Fenn: Well, if there's a legal question, yeah. What if there's not a legal question? My argument is that the person who finds it is gonna own it.
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