Post by whoknows on Jan 9, 2021 10:22:58 GMT -5
After much thought it seemed that there were many solves and that the answer was basically subjective. It seemed that a solve in Pilgrim Creek in the Grand Teton Park and also a spot in the Ferris Mountains had a lot of matches. The Great Wyoming Basin has a lot of "warm waters halt," all creeks in the basis end up drying out. But not that many canyons and most dont have roads in them.
But there is another fit that looks better, and in fact it seems better and better with more research. So here it goes with reasoning.
As I have gone alone in there
And with my treasures bold,
I can keep my secret where,
And hint of riches new and old.
Fenn says no hints here. But "alone in there" means alone in an area off of major highways and likely devoid of people most of the year -- maybe except occasional BLM, radio tower, ranch, and hunters.
This is not an alone in there place but also a wilderness place known for good hunting and fishing.
Begin it where warm waters halt
And take it in the canyon down,
Not far, but too far to walk.
Put in below the home of Brown.
A reading of many posts indicated that people thought the Firehole River or Canyon in Yellowstone was "where warm waters halt." But did it ever occur to you that there is actually more than one Firehole Canyon and they are far apart?
The Fenn slip up the finder mentioned might be Pinion Pines because that pointed to looking in SW Wyoming (with the area narrowed down to Wyoming last summer to make things much easier).
At this point, I already found what might be a home of Brown, while scouring around the Great Basin area, and now "not far but too far to walk" away, there was also a Firehole Canyon.
Hmmm, could we be on to something?
The second Firehole Canyon is at 41.351598, -109.441741 off the Flaming Gorge Reservoir. Not only could it fit by analogy to the Yellowstone Firehole, the creek that runs in such canyon looks like it is dry most of the (warm) part of the year. The warm waters in that creek likely do not reach the reservoir but maybe occasional floods or cold waters from snow melt do. There is a park campground, two beaches and a boat launch at this Firehole Canyon. Very scenic but dry.
Let's see how this Firehole fits though.
The next canyon down the reservoir, "not far" is the canyon of Sage Creek -- 41.312759, -109.477560. There are actually two canyons at Firehole but one canyon down has no road in it. Firehole Canyon has a road but it is likely not a "canyon down."
Because of flooding it appears that many canyons in this area are roadless. So, let's go with Sage Creek for now.
In the end, there are multiple routes from beginning to end if you look at Google Earth.
You can take county or forest service numbered roads east and then south in the Canyon of Sage Creek. It appears the "your" road is called Sage Creek Road. It seems to bear several route numbers including 33, 106, 36.
Take Sage Creek Rd. to US 191 at 41.291068, -109.234762. Remember Fenn said to use good maps to match up to the clues, so it may not be an issue that there appears to be no clue as to which direction to turn on 191 so long as one has identified Brown or at least a place that might be Brown.
And in fact, there appears to be at least two ways of maybe of going "in there" right up to the blaze with 4WD.
So, let's try the US 191 way to get there first and go back to try the second way later. (the second way has a better road and is more scenic but does not match the poem as closely)
Make a right on US 191 South at 41.291068, -109.234762 (intersection of Sage Creek Road and US 191).
At about 41.121878, -109.211950, US 191 crosses a small creek that is sourced by Brown Spring. Could this be home of Brown? I don't know because nearby there seems to be a much better fit. Or, maybe "Brown" is intended to be used more than once.
Keep an open mind though and dont let this rule out anything.
Not far south of the creek crossing, there is a rutted dirt road to the right that intersects US 191 at 41.116791, -109.203171. Going on that rutted road would be "putting in" and
"no place for the meek." Looks like high clearance 4WD, no snow, no muddy roads and careful driving are mandatory. It also appears to get steep as one goes up in elevation to the top. At the top, it travels close by some steep drop offs.
Be careful!
The end is ever drawing nigh;
I interpreted this to be the top of the road where it is much flatter at the higher elevation. 41.109613, -109.234067
There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
Just heavy loads and water high.
This way, one did not even need to follow a creek. But there appears to be a much better road to the same general area. That road follows a mostly dry creek beloiw with maybe some water uop higher in elevation. Also way more scenic but be careful for desert floods and again Ill guess high clearance 4WD is required.
For this way, start at the intersection of Ramsey Ranch Rd and a dirt road at 41.206366, -109.256344. Ramsey Ranch Rd itself intersects with Sage Creek Rd at 41.282680, -109.269276. Ramsey Ranch Rd. generally travels in a north/south direction to the west of US 191.
Anyhow, going back to the dirt road off of Ramsey Ranch Rd at 41.206366, -109.256344, take that dirt road up around the hill. This looks like a better road up to the top. There are multiple forks but **stay on the obviously comparatively more well traveled road all the way to the top**.
This road eventually runs up in the drainage of Spring Creek, which is a tributary to Sage Creek. Interesting how this journey begins with Sage Creek, loops around and then follows a tributary of Sage Creek.
You will pass Coyote Springs and should have an extremely scenic drive up the drainage (here, "up" is in a southbound direction).
As you get higher in elevation, you will start to see forests and then you will climb out of the drainage to higher elevation about 41.147896, -109.274706. Just stay on the main road, as there are a lot of other less used dirt roads in the area. The scenery/lookout on top ought to be great and well worth the drive.
Near the top, the road you have been on will come to a T at 41.094415, -109.286025. Make a left at the T. You will go through more forest and then emerge on top of the mountain ridge at about 41.081306, -109.286561.
(of course look at maps first. Google maps and earth in satellite view show this)
If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
Just take the chest and go in peace.
Without boots on the ground, it might be hard to determine "the" blaze. I was just curious if there were any benchmarks in the area and discovered a benchmark named "Brown." (https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark.prl?PidBox=MQ0483)
Now I am thinking that there really is a lot of matching between the Poem and the actual area.
"Brown" benchmark should be, but probably has been damaged because people illegally collect the benchmark markers, at about 41.105653, -109.249889. If it were intact, Brown is described as "MARKED BY STANDARD U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY DISK IN PARTIALLY BURIED BOULDER." in the datasheet per the above link. The datasheet says Brown is at 41 06 20.31865(N) 109 14 59.56093(W)
The Brown datasheet identifies several nearby Reference Marks that would allow one to triangulate to the location (home?) of Brown if Brown is missing.
Wise? Wise is a synonym of "Sage" and the journey does follow Sage Creek plus followed Spring Creek, a tributary of Sage. Maybe Wise is looking for benchmarks or figuring out the Firehole issue? Who knows but it may not matter that much.
Maybe it does matter but I have not seen it yet.
Now, one must quickly look down. Immediately is a synonym of quickly. Immediate seems to express time (do it right away) or also closeness (the immediate area).
I'll take the immediate area.
And, we are to look down.
One way would be to look back toward the woods. Another would be to look towards what appears to be some evergreens near the steep edges of the mountain.
Jack said the treasure was not on level ground, was in a sunny area but not in the sun. The edge has a lot of rocks and undoubtedly a lot of nooks. My guess is the treasure was found somewhere along there.
If not, it was found along the ridge or woods in the general area.
Fenn and Jack both said the treasure was in a wet area. The edge is not wet but again, maybe Fenn answered the "wet" question when there was sonw on the ground, or perhals the nook is somewhat damp.
Finally marvel gaze. Probably a clue as to the ridge edge vs. forest. The ridge ought to have a great view from there at about 8,900 feet. That is why ill place my bet on the ridge vs. the nearby forest.
It seems that the place matches all of Fenn's and Jack's clues. If the treasure were on the ground under one of the ridge edge evergreens or under a rock there, it is doubtful that anyone would be walking there, other than to look for the treasure -- you would not want to slip and fall as it is a long way down. Be careful!
So why is it that I must go
And leave my trove for all to seek?
The answers I already know,
I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.
This does not seem to have locational clues. Perhaps this relates to his cancer diagnosis and eventual recovery and the initial thought he might just like to go to the spot to die in the presence of incredible beauty and peace.
So hear me all and listen good,
"[H]ear me all and listen good" seems to mean to take each and every word of the poem as being important and likely intertwined. Listen carefully to all words.
Your effort will be worth the cold.
If you are brave and in the wood
I give you title to the gold.
It may be "cold" up there all year because of elevation and winds. Going close to the edge could include some bravery and you were in the wood if you took the Spring Creek way up.
If someone tries this in the late spring when the snow is gone and roads dry out (high clearance 4WD likely required), please post some photos. Also, check for ownership in the Sweetwater County online plat map. It appears that access is all BLM or state owned land.
What do you think?
But there is another fit that looks better, and in fact it seems better and better with more research. So here it goes with reasoning.
As I have gone alone in there
And with my treasures bold,
I can keep my secret where,
And hint of riches new and old.
Fenn says no hints here. But "alone in there" means alone in an area off of major highways and likely devoid of people most of the year -- maybe except occasional BLM, radio tower, ranch, and hunters.
This is not an alone in there place but also a wilderness place known for good hunting and fishing.
Begin it where warm waters halt
And take it in the canyon down,
Not far, but too far to walk.
Put in below the home of Brown.
A reading of many posts indicated that people thought the Firehole River or Canyon in Yellowstone was "where warm waters halt." But did it ever occur to you that there is actually more than one Firehole Canyon and they are far apart?
The Fenn slip up the finder mentioned might be Pinion Pines because that pointed to looking in SW Wyoming (with the area narrowed down to Wyoming last summer to make things much easier).
At this point, I already found what might be a home of Brown, while scouring around the Great Basin area, and now "not far but too far to walk" away, there was also a Firehole Canyon.
Hmmm, could we be on to something?
The second Firehole Canyon is at 41.351598, -109.441741 off the Flaming Gorge Reservoir. Not only could it fit by analogy to the Yellowstone Firehole, the creek that runs in such canyon looks like it is dry most of the (warm) part of the year. The warm waters in that creek likely do not reach the reservoir but maybe occasional floods or cold waters from snow melt do. There is a park campground, two beaches and a boat launch at this Firehole Canyon. Very scenic but dry.
Let's see how this Firehole fits though.
The next canyon down the reservoir, "not far" is the canyon of Sage Creek -- 41.312759, -109.477560. There are actually two canyons at Firehole but one canyon down has no road in it. Firehole Canyon has a road but it is likely not a "canyon down."
Because of flooding it appears that many canyons in this area are roadless. So, let's go with Sage Creek for now.
In the end, there are multiple routes from beginning to end if you look at Google Earth.
You can take county or forest service numbered roads east and then south in the Canyon of Sage Creek. It appears the "your" road is called Sage Creek Road. It seems to bear several route numbers including 33, 106, 36.
Take Sage Creek Rd. to US 191 at 41.291068, -109.234762. Remember Fenn said to use good maps to match up to the clues, so it may not be an issue that there appears to be no clue as to which direction to turn on 191 so long as one has identified Brown or at least a place that might be Brown.
And in fact, there appears to be at least two ways of maybe of going "in there" right up to the blaze with 4WD.
So, let's try the US 191 way to get there first and go back to try the second way later. (the second way has a better road and is more scenic but does not match the poem as closely)
Make a right on US 191 South at 41.291068, -109.234762 (intersection of Sage Creek Road and US 191).
At about 41.121878, -109.211950, US 191 crosses a small creek that is sourced by Brown Spring. Could this be home of Brown? I don't know because nearby there seems to be a much better fit. Or, maybe "Brown" is intended to be used more than once.
Keep an open mind though and dont let this rule out anything.
Not far south of the creek crossing, there is a rutted dirt road to the right that intersects US 191 at 41.116791, -109.203171. Going on that rutted road would be "putting in" and
"no place for the meek." Looks like high clearance 4WD, no snow, no muddy roads and careful driving are mandatory. It also appears to get steep as one goes up in elevation to the top. At the top, it travels close by some steep drop offs.
Be careful!
The end is ever drawing nigh;
I interpreted this to be the top of the road where it is much flatter at the higher elevation. 41.109613, -109.234067
There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
Just heavy loads and water high.
This way, one did not even need to follow a creek. But there appears to be a much better road to the same general area. That road follows a mostly dry creek beloiw with maybe some water uop higher in elevation. Also way more scenic but be careful for desert floods and again Ill guess high clearance 4WD is required.
For this way, start at the intersection of Ramsey Ranch Rd and a dirt road at 41.206366, -109.256344. Ramsey Ranch Rd itself intersects with Sage Creek Rd at 41.282680, -109.269276. Ramsey Ranch Rd. generally travels in a north/south direction to the west of US 191.
Anyhow, going back to the dirt road off of Ramsey Ranch Rd at 41.206366, -109.256344, take that dirt road up around the hill. This looks like a better road up to the top. There are multiple forks but **stay on the obviously comparatively more well traveled road all the way to the top**.
This road eventually runs up in the drainage of Spring Creek, which is a tributary to Sage Creek. Interesting how this journey begins with Sage Creek, loops around and then follows a tributary of Sage Creek.
You will pass Coyote Springs and should have an extremely scenic drive up the drainage (here, "up" is in a southbound direction).
As you get higher in elevation, you will start to see forests and then you will climb out of the drainage to higher elevation about 41.147896, -109.274706. Just stay on the main road, as there are a lot of other less used dirt roads in the area. The scenery/lookout on top ought to be great and well worth the drive.
Near the top, the road you have been on will come to a T at 41.094415, -109.286025. Make a left at the T. You will go through more forest and then emerge on top of the mountain ridge at about 41.081306, -109.286561.
(of course look at maps first. Google maps and earth in satellite view show this)
If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
Just take the chest and go in peace.
Without boots on the ground, it might be hard to determine "the" blaze. I was just curious if there were any benchmarks in the area and discovered a benchmark named "Brown." (https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark.prl?PidBox=MQ0483)
Now I am thinking that there really is a lot of matching between the Poem and the actual area.
"Brown" benchmark should be, but probably has been damaged because people illegally collect the benchmark markers, at about 41.105653, -109.249889. If it were intact, Brown is described as "MARKED BY STANDARD U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY DISK IN PARTIALLY BURIED BOULDER." in the datasheet per the above link. The datasheet says Brown is at 41 06 20.31865(N) 109 14 59.56093(W)
The Brown datasheet identifies several nearby Reference Marks that would allow one to triangulate to the location (home?) of Brown if Brown is missing.
Wise? Wise is a synonym of "Sage" and the journey does follow Sage Creek plus followed Spring Creek, a tributary of Sage. Maybe Wise is looking for benchmarks or figuring out the Firehole issue? Who knows but it may not matter that much.
Maybe it does matter but I have not seen it yet.
Now, one must quickly look down. Immediately is a synonym of quickly. Immediate seems to express time (do it right away) or also closeness (the immediate area).
I'll take the immediate area.
And, we are to look down.
One way would be to look back toward the woods. Another would be to look towards what appears to be some evergreens near the steep edges of the mountain.
Jack said the treasure was not on level ground, was in a sunny area but not in the sun. The edge has a lot of rocks and undoubtedly a lot of nooks. My guess is the treasure was found somewhere along there.
If not, it was found along the ridge or woods in the general area.
Fenn and Jack both said the treasure was in a wet area. The edge is not wet but again, maybe Fenn answered the "wet" question when there was sonw on the ground, or perhals the nook is somewhat damp.
Finally marvel gaze. Probably a clue as to the ridge edge vs. forest. The ridge ought to have a great view from there at about 8,900 feet. That is why ill place my bet on the ridge vs. the nearby forest.
It seems that the place matches all of Fenn's and Jack's clues. If the treasure were on the ground under one of the ridge edge evergreens or under a rock there, it is doubtful that anyone would be walking there, other than to look for the treasure -- you would not want to slip and fall as it is a long way down. Be careful!
So why is it that I must go
And leave my trove for all to seek?
The answers I already know,
I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.
This does not seem to have locational clues. Perhaps this relates to his cancer diagnosis and eventual recovery and the initial thought he might just like to go to the spot to die in the presence of incredible beauty and peace.
So hear me all and listen good,
"[H]ear me all and listen good" seems to mean to take each and every word of the poem as being important and likely intertwined. Listen carefully to all words.
Your effort will be worth the cold.
If you are brave and in the wood
I give you title to the gold.
It may be "cold" up there all year because of elevation and winds. Going close to the edge could include some bravery and you were in the wood if you took the Spring Creek way up.
If someone tries this in the late spring when the snow is gone and roads dry out (high clearance 4WD likely required), please post some photos. Also, check for ownership in the Sweetwater County online plat map. It appears that access is all BLM or state owned land.
What do you think?
