A special, dear, fond, and secret place.

[Deleted]

Dec 22, 2016 17:20:55 GMT -5 seannm said:

All,

Sorry no GPS coords, just more talk.

 Forrest has said several times, if not every time, that the place he chose to secret the treasure was in his mind from the start, and that no other place was ever considered. Forrest has also said that the place he chose is, special, dear and fond to him.

"Your destination is small, but its location is huge."f

Those words came to us via the February 19th, 2016 Weekly Words previously provided by Forrest to Jenny. But what do we believe those words mean?  Let me provide my thoughts and then you tell me what you think.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
des·ti·na·tion
ˌdestəˈnāSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: destination; plural noun: destinations

1.
the place to which someone or something is going or being sent.
"a popular destination for golfers"
synonyms: journey's end, end of the line; terminus, stop, stopping place, port of call;
goal, purpose, target, end
-------------------------------------------------------------------
lo·ca·tion
lōˈkāSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: location; plural noun: locations

a particular place or position.
"the property is set in a convenient location"
synonyms: position, place, situation, site, locality, locale, spot, whereabouts, point; scene, setting, area, environment;
bearings, orientation;
venue, address;
technicallocus
"we've found the perfect location for our family reunion"
-------------------------------------------------------------------

So by the basic definitions we can easily ascertain that our destination is, or should be, our goal, obviously where the treasure resides. And the location that our destination resides within is a larger place, region, local, spot etc etc. I previously believed that YNP was that special place, it was the obvious choice, right? I mean WWWH had to be Madison Junction or Mammoth Springs, it seemed so logical, it was in the book, he speaks so highly of the place! But I was attempting to force fit the poem into my perception of what I believed to be Forrest's special spot, and ignored the poem to my own peril. I was so blindly wrapped around the idea that the exact spot or destination that the treasure resides must be special, that I failed to see that it may just be the larger location and not the precise destination, that is special to Forrest. And that huge location could quite possibly be just about anywhere out there in the Rocky Mountains. I mean come on "What did we expect for free admission".

Those that solved the first two clues and then went past the other 7 without knowing they had been so close, or those that arrived there and didn't understand it's significance, may have been trying to understand what made that place special to Forrest and ignored what the poem was trying to tell them.

So what I believe we all should be doing instead is, to allow the poem, TTOTC, a good map/GE and our imagination lead us to the destination, instead of picking what we believe to be a special place and force fitting the poem around it. Close your eyes, clear your mind and then think, and analyze, that's the trick.

dalneitzel.com/2017/02/08/forrest-gets-mail-13/

In the poem, Thrill of The Chase when you talk about “Not far, but too far to walk” and “Take it in the canyon down,” is it referring to a waterfall.
You guys seem to be hung up on waterfalls. Don’t try to change my poem to fit your ideas. (I warned you before to beware of false prophets)

Seannm

Seannm, here is an example of where you are not being vague and give out good info to make one think.  You said a lot, without giving away any solve.

[Deleted]

Mar 24, 2017 12:33:11 GMT -5 seannm said:

"Objection your Honor, leading!"

Now no offense to Dal, but this line of reasoning by him is precisely, in my opinion, why we as a search community continue to fail. Dal, in his example, is using historical data and information outside that which has been provided by Forrest, in an attempt to justify his and many others assumption, that the place that Forrest secreted the treasure is "special" to him and that because he talks so fondly of YNP both in the book and in interviews then the treasure must be located in YNP. So what do they then do, they search for things outside of the poem to justify or confirm their assumptions, and ignore what the poem is telling them. Hell I did the same thing too, but I adjusted, well after burning my book and taking some much needed time off.

So, again, as Forrest has told us "all the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem, and excellent research material are TTOTC, the poem and a good map/GE" (sic).

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

Seannm

I've given this sort of reasoning much thought. At one point, there were more States involved than the current 4. I haven't seen it discussed anywhere, but nobody ever asks why Utah and Idaho were removed from the search area or their potential correlation to the book. There are certainly plenty of Browns, canyons, and warm waters in these places. So why were they removed? Was it happenstance?

The only feasable explanation is a simple one. Utah and Idaho, to my knowledge, are not mentioned at all in TTOTC as a place that Forrest ever spent time. For that matter, neither was Canada. It too was removed "accidentally".

There can certainly be other reasons unbeknownst to the searcher and only known by Fenn, but this is the most simple. If we go by this reasoning, then Colorado would be the least likely of the remaining States, and the Yellowstone area being the most likely if we base this reasoning on most mentioned vs. least, based on TTOTC stories of where Forrest spent time. The first 20 years of his life in the 4-state search area was predominanlty in the book spent in the Yellowstone area, the next 20 years were spent in many places, but of the 4-state search area in the book, Colorado. And in the latter years, New Mexico.

It is my opinion that we as a search community continue to fail because there is a belief the clues to the chest in the poem must be hidden in the mountains, literally. And we look at the clues in the poem in that context, literally. So we look for creeks, mountains, rivers, canyons, etc. This may be the misdirection that is causing failure.

If many searchers have solved the first clue and didn't know it, and most searchers never leave the comfort of their home, what possibly could the first clue be? If a little girl in another country, NOT in the US, can solve the first two clues, what could they be?

Hopefully, this provides a different perspective that helps a searcher think the right things.

[goldwatch]

May 26, 2017 22:57:03 GMT -5 seannm said:

All,



There has been recent talk about one not being able to handle the responsibility of failing to come home with the chest, and this type of talk just doesn't sit well with me, so let me add me two cents worth.



Forrest has said, "You just can't get out of your car and walk over into the woods and walk to it." www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipvIGaVt7C8 (10:35 mark)



Forrest has also said, "Whoever finds it is going to earn it" (Moby Dickens 2013 video)



Thomas Edison failed time and time again before he succeeded, and our history books are littered with failures, but we only talk about their successes. So you are going to fail, everyone who goes out searching for Forrest Fenn's treasure is going to fail. But the one who finds the treasure, is the one among us who best picked themselves up and continued to fail until they didn't. 

Treasure the time you spend out in the sunshine, and you will never come home empty handed or hearted.



Seannm

Forrest also said "If a person will think, they can find the chest. But the secret is to think, and analyze, they can find the chest."
So I don't think that BOTG are needed. I could be wrong, it's all interpretation on this. But I just don't think you need BOTG, except of course that final one to get the treasure.
Still, I envy those of you who have had the means to go out there and search repeatedly. That makes for a great story in your life. One that I'm not able to have at this time. I've got a few left, gas money wise. So I have to work around the unforeseen and other difficulties. What a shame.

[rahrah]

Dec 28, 2016 10:20:29 GMT -5 @wymustigo said:

Dec 28, 2016 1:28:53 GMT -5 @drifter said:

In my response, I started to insert a different interpretation of the pronoun "I"; then thought, no, it's not germane to the "alone in there" phrase.

If you're talking about that first line being the POV of some ... fish ... I beg to differ.  No one is going to convince me that FF's secret place is some fishing hole, and that the searcher has to put on  breathing tank, fins, wet suit, goggles, and who knows what else, to dive into some cold body of water to retrieve the chest.  This is supposed to be a family friendly quest that's suitable for kids and not risky.

I can't think of a worse solution to the poem than some body of water; unimaginative, trite, amateurish, and dangerous.  I can just see some mommy advising her 11 year old >>> "Now, Susie, put on your fins; are your breathing tanks secure?; watch those sharp rocks below the surface"; Susie proceeds to disappear under the water, followed by the appearance of a red liquid on the surface.  "Oh, hubby, I think Susie may have encountered a problem; why don't you dive in and rescue her!"

If your "being" is another human (i.e. brother, father, friend, celebrity, blah blah blah), that would be better, but how would FF know for a fact that said individual actually went "in there" alone?  And, it would move the focus away from FF, himself, which is not what I envision.

Now, if you're not talking about another person, and your "being" is something other than a fish, ... I'd be swimming with curiosity; and "I" am no fish.

Drifter   

Who said it is a person and not inatimate object?   The first stanza needs to be answered, "I" is not Forrest IMO.  Not understanding the first stanza pretty much means you will never find the correct place WWWH's.

In my solve, "I" is not Forrest

[goldwatch]

That's just it, Sean. The treasure is hidden. But how is the question.
Remember the FF also said that it was hard to imagine a person being within 12' and not finding it.

[The Wolf]

I have always said from the very beginning this poem was made to appear too easy. It was designed for failure. Many have resented me for saying it and I will continue to repeat it. One must fail and learn and repeat until they learn what the clues mean. Edison failed and learned but he did not blame his failures on Tesla or burn his research, that behaviour would have been a distraction resulting in someone else inventing the light bulb before he did. He owned his failures, learned from his mistakes and focused on fixing them.

www.livescience.com/46739-tesla-vs-edison-comparison.html

[Deleted]

May 27, 2017 13:31:52 GMT -5 goldwatch said:

That's just it, Sean. The treasure is hidden. But how is the question.
Remember the FF also said that it was hard to imagine a person being within 12' and not finding it.

If anything, I think that point proves it is not buried like his Jars and Bells.  I doubt he dug a 12 foot hole.  I think when that once you figure out the poem and are BOTG it will be obvious.  Its just that you will NEVER see it from Google Earth (IT being the chest). 

[Deleted]

One thing people need to keep in mind is the following:

Lets say you find your final spot, it is in a canyon and you are assuming the chest is at 5000 feet. Well you could be at the bottom of a canyon at 5000 feet and don't see it because you need to go into a canyon that is 4,990 feet altitude at its base (below search area), and the chest is in the canyon wall 10 feet up at exactly 5,000 feet!

It could be something that simple. You could even be in a forest at 4,988 feet and the chest is on a rock 12 feet above you. Remember that the chest is from 5000-10,200 feet, not the clue locations.  For example maybe you will notice the hoB at 36,000 feet in the air but on the ground you can't see it because it is massive.

[The Wolf]

May 27, 2017 13:53:46 GMT -5 @wymustigo said:

May 27, 2017 13:31:52 GMT -5 goldwatch said:

That's just it, Sean. The treasure is hidden. But how is the question.
Remember the FF also said that it was hard to imagine a person being within 12' and not finding it.

If anything, I think that point proves it is not buried like his Jars and Bells.  I doubt he dug a 12 foot hole.  I think when that once you figure out the poem and are BOTG it will be obvious.  Its just that you will NEVER see it from Google Earth (IT being the chest). 

Wy, you make a good point, the resolution of the best satellites Google Earth use can't get to 10"x10" resolution. Thus FF's quote "Google Earth doesn't go down far enough." People can take pictures and pin them to GE as well, so at that time he said it, there was not a picture of the chest pinned to GE.

I agree when you figure out the poem it will be obvious. The 12 foot quote combined with "no body is going to stumble upon it", to me means less likely it is in plain sight and he did not rely on it being covered over time. I believe there is a barrier that prevents one from easily getting to within 12 feet to make the "no stumble" remark valid. That too will be obvious once the remaining clues are solved.

[The Wolf]

How did they arrive within 200 feet if it were not by accident? Only two clues were confirmed solved the time Mr Fenn made that statement. Maybe you can point out what I am missing logically for I can see only two explanations as to how you can get with 200 feet and only solve two clues:
1) The treasure is hidden within 200 feet of the second clue, or
2) Accident

If this logic cannot be broken, maybe we should try and examine why they are able to get there but accident.

[The Wolf]

Why did When Mr. Fenn call this "The Thrill of the Chase?" There are likely a few reasons, but one he talked about was the thrill he had finding valuable paintings after long searches, he wanted us to all experience that. So for those who do not think you have to fail first, how can it be the thrill of the chase? If it were that easy, or that simple,just solve it and pick it up, give a few shouts and it is done.

How about dating and courting? Not as exciting if you don't get a "no" at first!

Now consider failing (and for those who can't come to terms with that word, I use the euphemism "success delay") and picking yourself up and going at it again, and again, until you solve it. Are the emotions in this scenario not closer to the definition of the Thrill of the Chase? Is that not more closely aligned with Fenn's feelings on the subject?

[Deleted]

Seannm,

What does one consider a "parking spot" one that is paved and has lanes or just a turn out along a dirt road?

Anywhere within the borders of a spot people might visit for some reason.  It could be paved or dirt, don't think it matters.  200 feet from whatever they were describing to Forrest, but it was clear to him (based on the clues they gave him) that it was probably not anywhere near where they were searching.  The were probably behaving like a tourist at some point during their search.  For example, if I am searching near the Medicine Wheel and sent Fenn a picture of me fishing at Bakers Hole, if the chest was within 200 feet of Bakers Hole than Forrest knows it had nothing to do with my search IF by chance my starting location was correct (im not saying the wheel is, just using it as an example because I am not looking there heh)

Yes, what is the definition of searchers? People searching for solitude, rocks or a treasure chest full of gold?

By searcher I mean only people who are on his chase that emailed him with info on where they were.  He was answering a question regarding how close the chase searchers have been to the chest, as far as I know he never said it in reponse to all people because he couldn't know that answer.

[rahrah]

May 27, 2017 13:56:42 GMT -5 seannm said:

May 27, 2017 13:31:52 GMT -5 goldwatch said:

That's just it, Sean. The treasure is hidden. But how is the question.
Remember the FF also said that it was hard to imagine a person being within 12' and not finding it.

goldwatch,

 Yes I recall the quote from Forrest, and it should give one pause when coupled with the mention from Forrest that no one will happen or stumble upon it. 

dalneitzel.com/2014/06/25/scrapbook-seventy-eight/

Second, I have not said that a searcher was closer than 12’ from the treasure. It is not likely that anyone would get that close and not find it.

Forrest says anyone, not a wise searcher or searcher in general he says anyone.  And that they (anyone) who would get within in 12' of it, would have a chance of finding it.  Those words by Forrest were carefully chosen, and can go either way, but to me it speaks to the fact that the treasure may not have been buried, but simply placed in a way that the natural surroundings over time may conceal it in such a manner that one must get within that 12 ft radius and be actively searching for it and quite possible wise to how it may be secreted. Again I believe that the words in the poem tell you everything you need to know, but one must think and analyze how he could have made it happen. 

Seannm

In a place near my area I saw a potential way to hide the chest that I hadn't given much thought to....I actually spent time examining the entire WALL - a stone wall, made up of a variety of rocks, all various shades of brown, to see if I'd see one out of place if it had been a chest.....it would be really hard to see a bronze chest within the wall.  Just as I totally missed the coyote stalking prey not 15' from my car today as we explored Valles Caldera - no we were never in danger, he was way more interested in the prairie dog he was stalking than us (and he did get it), but it was crazy how much he blended into the surrounding area - he was virtually invisible, but right next to us......I think the chest is well camouflaged in it's resting place.

[The Wolf]

This is what Forrest said in the “Real Life India Jones” interview:


“There have been some who have been within 500 feet because they told me where they had been. Others have figured out the first two clues and went right past the treasure and didn’t know it.”
He has also said:


"Several months ago some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close. Alas, and dame fortune, so often a fickle and seductive wench, never spun her wheel to lure them back."

Many searches assumed because he mentioned these two examples in the same breath that they must be the same people. If so, how can these searchers get the first two clues, skip the rest and then accidentally end up in the correct place but didn’t know the significance of where they were?

I believe this to be a false assumption because Mr. Fenn’s statements logically prove the searchers who got the first two clues correct (and went on past the other seven) were not the same people who were within five hundred feet. He carefully uses the word "others" to differentiate the two statements, which means they are different people/parties. He often quotes these two different statements together when asked if searchers have been close. He says that depends on your definition of close. He then went on to give two separate examples of close:
1) two clues correctly identified and then walked/went on by the other seven; and
2) there have been some who have been within five hundred feet because they have told me where they have been.

The latter statement makes no mention of these searchers being the same people that were within five hundred feet. He even said they were not aware of the significance of were they were, almost suggesting they were there by chance or something drew them there for another reason. Initially I thought this was only possible because the guessed the blaze, but his latest comments suggest that searching for the blaze is a waste of time. So what could bring a search to within 500 feet and they are not aware of the significance? I am confident if the searcher follows the clues and gets to the end, they should be aware of the significance unless the are not following the clues when they arrived there. So did the searchers take a break from searching and go somewhere else and pass by it or do they visit a place of significance, perhaps a tourist place and were oblivious that the treasure was there?

Forrest has since narrowed the “closeest distance” to 200 feet.
Many treasure seekers solved the first two clues but for some reason could not crack the rest, which on the surface is puzzling since he said the clues get progressively easier. Progressively easier is a relative term and since only a handful of seekers out of the tens of thousands of searchers managed to get the first two clues correct, then it may not be all that easy to get the next two or three clues correct either.

[Deleted]

May 28, 2017 15:19:52 GMT -5 seannm said:

May 28, 2017 12:07:13 GMT -5 @wymustigo said:

Seannm, I won't say who told me this to avoid issues, but its nothing they asked to keep private, they were only informing me of it because it sort of crosses a path of mine (they seen this in my threads) so they mentioned it happened a few years earlier. Anyway....

I do not remember who it was or where it is, but a while back FF did a radio interview and he is questioned about a searcher who claims to be near the chest. Forrest responded with something like "yeah that guy has a lot figured out" then changed the subject. I think that guy was Briggs or someone else from EU. Most people wrote Fenn's comment off as sarcastic, the person who emailed me believes otherwise and they claimed to know where he is wrong in his solve. I wish I had more facts, but they mentioned it because it is near my location. I did not let it influence anything, as a matter of fact based on what I read, he went a different way from WWWH, I am 180 degrees in the other direction and almost 100 miles away from where he claimed to had searched.

Whats interesting is that if what you are saying is correct, what if he took a picture from where he was standing at and looking towards where it was?

Note: I'm not saying I have anything to do with it, in fact I don't because Forrest did not know about my current area until 8/2016. Since then I send him any changes and updates to my area, but the stuff your talking about happened prior to that. It does make me wonder though if his statement was directed at the same guy he directed the radio interview? I *think* it was Andrew Briggs?


PS: Seann, if it was Briggs he talked about on the radio and Briggs was anywhere near the Wind River Range, my theory might have some merit.  If Briggs was nowhere near Wind River, then it has nothing and I can shup up! LOL  Its been too long, but I remember reading someone who failed at Sinks Canyon, this is way before I started looking there because I see no point in following other solves, that is why mine really is not near his spot.

wymustigo,

santafe.com/podcasts/forrest-fenn-dal-neitzel-on-the-hidden-treasure-and-leon-gaspard

7:08 mark:

His name must be added to those who have presumed to know the clues in the poem......He's one of many....But he's a pretty bright guy he's got a lot of it figured out, maybe. 

Seannm

Thanks, thats the one!