sfsean
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Post by sfsean on Nov 21, 2019 17:08:36 GMT -5
Also, I hard agree that the navigation comes from the painting. That's why I'm trying to decipher the "correct" way of interpreting the symbols. I'm familiar with the cairn and end-of-path like you mention, though I believe this path could still be in the urban area of the city - and that "end-of-path" would signify where the treasure is...
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Post by choice on Nov 21, 2019 17:32:54 GMT -5
So far I had nearly a dozen 'solves' for SF and at the end I always ask myself what the heck this got to do with Chinese immigration?! The other 3 solved puzzles all had strong to some connection to their respective immigration stories. This really narrows the area to either Chinatown, similar to northend of Boston for Italians or Maritime Park where down arrow from Angel Island points to. Twain may be a simple but tricky reference to the twin speaker towers. Next to the speaker are 10 blocks with 'acorn' on top. 4th white acorn is a cool spot to look at right by the tower.
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sfsean
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Post by sfsean on Nov 21, 2019 17:36:56 GMT -5
I think that the solutions are not necessarily tied to the "original" immigration group. Chinese immigration is so obvious for SF's story, and might be used as an identifier. However, the torii formed by the woman's neckline/top half of her dress is typically JAPANESE architecture - and I'm positive that Priess was not ignorant enough to equate China and Japan.
Also, as we're discussing the Maritime Park/Marina/Wharf area, that area was built and flourished under Italian hands. Joe D was Italian. The Italian immigration story is almost as relevant to SF as the Chinese - it's just more people know about the Chinese.
My best guess is our journey involves both groups to some extent, and possibly even Japan as well.
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Post by choice on Nov 21, 2019 17:48:59 GMT -5
Italian and Chinese, specifically Roman and Chinese is one of my theories that I discussed ad nauseam on Q4T simply because Roman numerals present. That and the 11 moons I went the goddess of the moon rout. DIA is present on the dress (mirrored) and 11 moons is NA, Sodium. BTW arched gate Paifang is common in Chinese gardens as well.
[ADDED:] Chinese exclusion act forced Chinese to wait for months in Angel Island for their statue verification. Japanese didn't so Angel Island doesn't apply to them.
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sfsean
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Post by sfsean on Nov 21, 2019 17:56:30 GMT -5
See, it's fascinating to hear all of that, but none of the solved puzzles involve that many levels of analysis (Just talking about the sodium comment, like sure it's interesting but BP comes nowhere close to that level of cryptic hints with any of the other hunts)
Even the artist has said that everyone's looking at things way too in-depth. These were meant to be simple...
And yes, Paifangs would be relevant, but the symbolism on the dress is almost explicitly a torii. It could allude to a Paifang, but if you compare the neckline to both, it should be clear...
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Post by SluggoZim on Nov 21, 2019 18:00:28 GMT -5
i have walked the streets as well at the time Byron was there. i swear there was a door like that on a back street behind the Cannery when they first built it. been up and down those streets on GE.
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sfsean
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Post by sfsean on Nov 21, 2019 18:05:34 GMT -5
i have walked the streets as well at the time Byron was there. i swear there was a door like that on a back street behind the Cannery when they first built it. been up and down those streets on GE. Would make sense, that whole area in my opinion is a lock to be involved somehow. Related to that, two blocks away is the cable car turnabout. I haven't seen anybody else comment on this peculiarity, but regarding the two semi-circles on the bottom of the dress - look at the cable car turnarounds, either at AP or Powell/Mason. This is the only symbol I'm somewhat confident about - they were around and visible without technology in the early 80's, and are iconic enough being tied to cable cars while also being obscure enough to be a good hint.
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Post by choice on Nov 21, 2019 18:08:39 GMT -5
See, it's fascinating to hear all of that, but none of the solved puzzles involve that many levels of analysis (Just talking about the sodium comment, like sure it's interesting but BP comes nowhere close to that level of cryptic hints with any of the other hunts) Even the artist has said that everyone's looking at things way too in-depth. These were meant to be simple... And yes, Paifangs would be relevant, but the symbolism on the dress is almost explicitly a torii. It could allude to a Paifang, but if you compare the neckline to both, it should be clear... Angel Island (rose) to me is exclusively Chinese related so that rules out Japanese for me. Your mileage may vary.
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sfsean
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Posts: 57
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Post by sfsean on Nov 21, 2019 18:12:01 GMT -5
See, it's fascinating to hear all of that, but none of the solved puzzles involve that many levels of analysis (Just talking about the sodium comment, like sure it's interesting but BP comes nowhere close to that level of cryptic hints with any of the other hunts) Even the artist has said that everyone's looking at things way too in-depth. These were meant to be simple... And yes, Paifangs would be relevant, but the symbolism on the dress is almost explicitly a torii. It could allude to a Paifang, but if you compare the neckline to both, it should be clear... Angel Island (rose) to me is exclusively Chinese related so that rules out Japanese for me. Your mileage may vary. I'm in agreement here. For simplicity's sake if nothing else, I'm narrowed to Chinese/Italian.
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Post by choice on Nov 21, 2019 19:23:38 GMT -5
See, it's fascinating to hear all of that, but none of the solved puzzles involve that many levels of analysis (Just talking about the sodium comment, like sure it's interesting but BP comes nowhere close to that level of cryptic hints with any of the other hunts) It's proven that there are rebuses at play in the images and the book. For example Boston location Andrew Puopolo park, bird perched on a 'polo' stick and pig in negative space is pua'a or pig in Hawaiian. Not too far fetched to go from Delta-Iota-Delta on the dress and NA from Sodium with 11 electrons (moons) to get to DIANA. Another rebus is in the magazine section. Prince Andrew in People magazine? Andrew People. Another one is Tony Geary/Magnum (of wine)/princess Diana on the cover of US magazine in a line. Geary BLVD ends at Sutro park right were Diana's statue is. Continue straight and you get to a literal stone wall's door where it used to store wine.
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sfsean
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Post by sfsean on Nov 21, 2019 19:53:35 GMT -5
Was the Puopolo reference confirmed by the artist, or is that something that people have found AFTER the discovery? If it was found after, it is subject to hindsight fallacy. If not, I'm completely mistaken - but I'm not sure how someone is supposed to find the pig in that negative space, then assume the Hawaiian name for a pig, next to a pole. Once again I could be completely wrong. The rebus for the Bellflower from Cleveland, however, is definitely there - but it's also clear and obvious with little room to wiggle.
Has there been any confirmation that there are ANY clues in the book, outside of the artwork and verses? 3/3 solved puzzles require zero reference to the rest of The Secret. I understand people are prone to tearing apart every last detail to try to find these cryptic underlying meanings. Maybe the buckshot approach works where if you keep firing, you will hit something - but I don't think it's a very efficient use of time. To be honest, I think that's precisely the problem we face in solving the mystery - and this was confirmed by the artist! - we are OVER-COMPLICATING things.
I don't mean for that to be a personal attack, but it's just....none of what you're talking about has anything to do with the immigration narrative. Are there coincidences? Sure. Was Priess using them? Who knows.
Are there letters and numbers hidden in Image #1? Absolutely. Are 99% of the silly drawings I've seen while scouring the Internet for plausible leads valid? Probably not.
It's easy to make conclusions based out of thin air - Take for example - "At stone wall's door", not at THE stone wall's door. This implies "stone wall" refers to Stonewall Jackson, Jackson Street/Jackson Square. Where Jackson Street begins, there is a gate nearby that used to be the entrance to Colombo Square, a famous immigrant market near the downtown area. Jackson Square also would be a wonderful starting point as you progress through the verse.
Twain's attention? You could pick a thousand "objects" in San Francisco that are totally viable - people, objects, frogs. Being able to list every single one will do you no good, it's about finding the "correct" one. In addition you have theories saying it's not referring to Mark Twain......- the Japanese translation essentially says yes, It's Mark F***ing Twain.
What I'm trying to do is find practical and realistic solutions. We're probably going to have differing opinions, and I'm sure 99% of my theories can be easily debunked by the things you know on this matter. In the interest of making progress on a 40-year-old mystery, however, I'm unsure where delving into chemistry based on the number of moons on the picture is going to help. That's called shoehorning.
Once again, look at Boston. There were many sorely disappointed that most of the details in the image had no real implication to the clue besides identifying Boston, and the home plate under which it is found - and this is how I feel about Image #1. Sure, it's Golden Gate Park in San Francisco. Is the cask there? I'd bet money on "no."
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Post by canuck on Nov 21, 2019 20:52:22 GMT -5
I'm of the opinion that the book has 3 elements, namely image, verse and fair folk match. I don't think the clues offered by the fair folk images make or break the puzzles, but rather offer additional clues to help you solve them. You are correct that the puzzles can be solved with just image and verse, the 3 solved ones are proof enough of that. In my opinion it has been that way due to people not realizing or picking up on the additional clues available to them. None of the found casques prove or disprove this theory, but finding some of the others certainly would. Take the NY puzzle for example...one of the fair folk matches is "Corporate Giants" with at least 2 very obvious clues to Manhattan. If we ever find the NY casque and its NOT in Manhattan that would disprove the theory.
For the San Francisco casque I feel the fair folk matches are "Alibi Elf" and "Mira Chimera". Some of the elements favor Legion of Honor and some favor Aquatic Park/Maritime Park. Nothing points to Golden Gate Park and I agree that looking there is a waste of time.
Another thing that is open for debate is whether Byron used quotes from books like Abroad in America to help craft the verses. If he did (and its a big if) then I like "Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc" by Mark Twain. It was the work that he was most proud of, so it would qualify as "an object of Twain's attention". The line in that book that got my attention begins "It was thought that this dragon was of a brilliant blue color, with gold mottlings..." Those are the colors of the dragon in Image 1, so either it is significant or one hell of a coincidence!
Legion of Honor checks a lot of the boxes with the clues'including El Cid's "Giant pole, Giant step", its flaw is there is no obvious immigration match. Aquatic Park/Maritime Park checks a lot of the boxes with the clues including Chinese immigration match, its flaw is where is the "Giant pole, Giant step"? Logically speaking it would be easier to rectify the latter than the former, but nobody has been able to piece it all together yet. We've learned a few new things from Boston, so hopefully it will help with the remaining puzzles.
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Post by choice on Nov 21, 2019 21:02:48 GMT -5
One can argue that the structure of the speaker tower is pole/step combo design.
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sfsean
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Post by sfsean on Nov 21, 2019 21:04:54 GMT -5
I agree with the Alibi Elf, haven't looked much at Mira Chimera yet. But I'm agreeing with your mindset and a lot of what you are saying.
It's totally plausible for literary works to be included in this. The beginning to the Boston puzzle was a reference to a relatively obscure letter sent by a British guy, so Twain's book of Joan of Arc is definitely within the realm of "reasonable"
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Post by canuck on Nov 21, 2019 21:28:27 GMT -5
One can argue that the structure of the speaker tower is pole/step combo design. I know you counted the handle of Alibi Elf's briefcase as the letter "C".
Hear me out, what if the briefcase handle is the speaker tower and the dot is the casque?
Any chance it could be buried underneath the overhanging part of the east speaker tower?
I've heard people argue about that rock with the plaque nearby being in Image 1.
Also wasn't the front of the speaker towers caged in, maybe the bars in Image 1 and Alibi Elf symbolize that?
Damn...it just clicked in my mind!
Get this.... Look at the Mira Chimera image on page 128. She is pulling on her nylons...GIANT POLE (play on words) and she is taking a step....GIANT STEP....the answer is staring us right in the face!!!
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