HORN

[astree]

The occurences of HORN in the poem analysis seems unusual, so started a separate thread for it.

from the “Scrapbook 229” thread

Nov 20, 2019 14:52:08 GMT -5 astree said:

Nov 14, 2019 16:50:38 GMT -5 Apple said:

Hi Astree, one of my (several) (yet unfavored) interpretations of the poem does involve a buffalo:

8. Collecting more letters from the beginning of the beginning gives the intersecting acrostics "horn" and "horn," vertically and horizontally (...hint of riches new...).

Of course, buffalo can be found in every search state and, depending on how far you zoom in, in most search areas within the search states.

Just an fyi to you two - if youre willing to zag going backwards, start with Halt, and you should be able to pick up at least 4 more HORNs, two intersect with the vertical one you caught, and two go down into the canyon.

Because Forrests website features horns, thi poem horns become more intriguing. ( www.oldsantafetradingco.com )

There is another way to derive HORN, giving close to the same result as the 4th line acrostic.  The third line has a unique word letter count, in which all numbers from 1- 6 are represented

I can keep my secret where >> 1 3 4 2 6 5

applying this sequence as a skip pattern to the 4th line yields the letters

A(nd) H(int) O(f) R(iches) N(ew an) D (old)

A HORN D

some possibilities, including N(orth) HOARD (hidden north of Santa Fe)

I realize the number pattern can be applied to the word “riches” to get something like “(a)rch is e.” ( remember forrests response to archie about the “s” inclusion in his website poem “answer(s)”?)

[davebakedpotato]

I do love an Astree post.

Can I be devil's advocate on this one though?: may have cause and effect mixed up.

H,o,r and n are all in the nine most frequently used letters in the English language.

Secondly, where does 'horn' get you anyway?

D

[astree]

.
It's a gray area to me, Dave. One occurence of HORN would be a curiosity, but multiple occurrences (though linked) got my attention, especially with the link to the horns on Forrest's website. I think the letters, in order and repeated, narrow down decrease the odds of just occurring from letter frequency, but not completely eliminate it.

HORN might get one nowhere, or it may be part of a place name, etc.  I believe some others have made connections with the word HORN.

Always interested to read your post, too, Dave.  Thank-you

[Apple]

Thanks Astree.  I saw the other Boggle-type connect-a-letter "horn"'s coming off of the "h" in "halt."  No doubt more, like the one you describe above, can be found.

Dave, this is an off-shoot of another thread where I suggested a WWWH: Gallatin River around where it exits from the NW corner of Yellowstone.  This is close to a number of things with "Horn" in the name and Buffalo Horn Creek intersects the Gallatin River nearby this location.

Horns/tusk/teeth are conceptually similar and they come up (sometimes more mysteriously than others) in many of Fenn's game related writings.  Think about Cody in Buffalo Cowboys and how he and the rope around his horns drove Fenn and company into a little creek.  Think about Scrapbook 9.  I'm not too familiar with TFTW and OUAW, but there is a mammoth tusk somewhere in there and buffalo horns as well.  Think about the recent Scrapbook 240 The Power of Dance.  Teeth of the Rockies, Scrapbook 115 Proper Dental Hygiene, the big cat skull.  All the horns on Fenn's creepy dolls.  A tiring amount of history about Custer and the Little Bighorn.

Each individually, for example a single acrostic of "horn," may be attributed to noise but over time one has to wonder if there is an intention through the repetition.  Then, if considered intentional, one has to wonder: to what end?  I provided one possible "why" in the thread above.  It's something, even if I myself am not very excited by it.  The intention might also not be apparent until further into the puzzle, so a meaning may remain obscure at this point (my point) in the game.

Dave, what do you think?  Intentional or noise?

[5leafblaze]

Maybe it's just to keep count across, down etc., marker, placeholder, but telling *some*thing.
Kidding. I know what it's for;)

[davebakedpotato]

Dec 2, 2019 16:54:20 GMT -5 Apple said:

Thanks Astree.  I saw the other Boggle-type connect-a-letter "horn"'s coming off of the "h" in "halt."  No doubt more, like the one you describe above, can be found.

Dave, this is an off-shoot of another thread where I suggested a WWWH: Gallatin River around where it exits from the NW corner of Yellowstone.  This is close to a number of things with "Horn" in the name and Buffalo Horn Creek intersects the Gallatin River nearby this location.

Horns/tusk/teeth are conceptually similar and they come up (sometimes more mysteriously than others) in many of Fenn's game related writings.  Think about Cody in Buffalo Cowboys and how he and the rope around his horns drove Fenn and company into a little creek.  Think about Scrapbook 9.  I'm not too familiar with TFTW and OUAW, but there is a mammoth tusk somewhere in there and buffalo horns as well.  Think about the recent Scrapbook 240 The Power of Dance.  Teeth of the Rockies, Scrapbook 115 Proper Dental Hygiene, the big cat skull.  All the horns on Fenn's creepy dolls.  A tiring amount of history about Custer and the Little Bighorn.

Each individually, for example a single acrostic of "horn," may be attributed to noise but over time one has to wonder if there is an intention through the repetition.  Then, if considered intentional, one has to wonder: to what end?  I provided one possible "why" in the thread above.  It's something, even if I myself am not very excited by it.  The intention might also not be apparent until further into the puzzle, so a meaning may remain obscure at this point (my point) in the game.

Dave, what do you think?  Intentional or noise?

So, two questions: is it intentional, and if so, why?

The two horns are an acrostic of Hint Of Riches New...and the 20th letters of each of the first four lines. To get this to work seems like such a feat of engineering as to be unlikely, especially if you believe stanza 1 has other useful information in it. Does this fall foul of the 'riddles, drones and ciphers' warning? I don't think so. I think the other horns if you found any in the poem are a bit too abstract to be intentional.

So are they intentional? - possibly.

As to why - here is a bigger problem. If they refer to a place, doesn't that make them a clue (debateable)? We know the first clue proper isn't in the first stanza, so it must be something else, either a hint or a confirmer. There are lots of places referring to horn in the Rockies, so it's a vague hint at best. Maybe it refers to the sound of a car horn, or a bugle, and why two horns? Most horned animals have two horns, it's not special and the fact there's two is only helpful if you have two places in your search area with the word 'horn' in it.
So maybe, if it is a hint, it is to point us to the number 20, which maybe is just as likely useful as the word horn.

So how do we know what to make of the two horns? Unless they fit very neatly into your solution we might have to accept they're a coincidence. And this is the issue with the chase, the poem, the books and the scrapbooks - knowing what is useful and what is not. As far as I can tell, there is no way of knowing until you have the chest, which is rather frustrating!

[astree]

.
Great comments, I will try to address more fully later today. HORN could also be interpretted as “H” or “N” as part of a clue ( though i dont have it that way, just saying there are a variety of ways to look at it ).

[davebakedpotato]

Interesting that one horn goes across and one goes down. The one going across is an acrostic. Across and down. = crossword (?) Or a place where two horns cross?

[astree]

Dec 3, 2019 2:24:15 GMT -5 davebakedpotato said:

Dec 2, 2019 16:54:20 GMT -5 Apple said:

Thanks Astree.  I saw the other Boggle-type connect-a-letter "horn"'s coming off of the "h" in "halt."  No doubt more, like the one you describe above, can be found.

Dave, this is an off-shoot of another thread where I suggested a WWWH: Gallatin River around where it exits from the NW corner of Yellowstone.  This is close to a number of things with "Horn" in the name and Buffalo Horn Creek intersects the Gallatin River nearby this location.

Horns/tusk/teeth are conceptually similar and they come up (sometimes more mysteriously than others) in many of Fenn's game related writings.  Think about Cody in Buffalo Cowboys and how he and the rope around his horns drove Fenn and company into a little creek.  Think about Scrapbook 9.  I'm not too familiar with TFTW and OUAW, but there is a mammoth tusk somewhere in there and buffalo horns as well.  Think about the recent Scrapbook 240 The Power of Dance.  Teeth of the Rockies, Scrapbook 115 Proper Dental Hygiene, the big cat skull.  All the horns on Fenn's creepy dolls.  A tiring amount of history about Custer and the Little Bighorn.

Each individually, for example a single acrostic of "horn," may be attributed to noise but over time one has to wonder if there is an intention through the repetition.  Then, if considered intentional, one has to wonder: to what end?  I provided one possible "why" in the thread above.  It's something, even if I myself am not very excited by it.  The intention might also not be apparent until further into the puzzle, so a meaning may remain obscure at this point (my point) in the game.

Dave, what do you think?  Intentional or noise?

So, two questions: is it intentional, and if so, why?

The two horns are an acrostic of Hint Of Riches New...and the 20th letters of each of the first four lines. To get this to work seems like such a feat of engineering as to be unlikely, especially if you believe stanza 1 has other useful information in it. Does this fall foul of the 'riddles, drones and ciphers' warning? I don't think so. I think the other horns if you found any in the poem are a bit too abstract to be intentional.

It does seem like it would require quite an engineered feat, but why would that be unlikely? The connection between the 6 horns, make a tight grouping, they are not scattered about the poem. So, seems to be as possible design. Given the horns on Forrest’s website, the connection seems likely. Could it be that Forrest realized the HORN acrostic, then adjusted the poem to produce more HORNs, and also placed them on his website … all as a red herring? Possible, in my view.

Here are some HORN ideas.

Big Horn County, MT
Horn Mountain at the military base in Colorado
A hearing horn (hear me good)
blow your own horn (the 20th letter HORN is preceded by 19th letters BEAT) ... or

BE AT HORN

BE AT HORN <> NEAR BOTH, ON BATHER, NORTH BE A, etc.

Cornucopia (“horn of plenty” rabbit hole alert >> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personification_of_the_Americas - the alligator, Zapster //

Idaho Flag)

So are they intentional? - possibly.

As to why - here is a bigger problem. If they refer to a place, doesn't that make them a clue (debateable)? We know the first clue proper isn't in the first stanza, so it must be something else, either a hint or a confirmer. There are lots of places referring to horn in the Rockies, so it's a vague hint at best. Maybe it refers to the sound of a car horn, or a bugle, and why two horns? Most horned animals have two horns, it's not special and the fact there's two is only helpful if you have two places in your search area with the word 'horn' in it.

So maybe, if it is a hint, it is to point us to the number 20, which maybe is just as likely useful as the word horn.


So how do we know what to make of the two horns? Unless they fit very neatly into your solution we might have to accept they're a coincidence. And this is the issue with the chase, the poem, the books and the scrapbooks - knowing what is useful and what is not. As far as I can tell, there is no way of knowing until you have the chest, which is rather frustrating!

It's possible that Forrest has peppered the poem with such things, as HORN, just for his amusement, and have nothing to do with a primary solve.   Or, is it to indirectly direct our attention to something else?  

Well, shoot.  I just pulled a Costco Gala Disney apple out of my lunch bag, and it had a sticker of Goofy on it, so maybe take this with a grain of salt.

[Apple]

Dave: Across and down. = crossword (?) Or a place where two horns cross?

Dave, a crossword, an intersection. Buffalo Horn Creek intersects the Gallatin River. I'm not advocating that this is the 100% "I know what it's for;)" correct interpretation but, in my opinion, it is not an unreasonable one. Let's assume this is the answer to the first clue: WWWH. Fenn tells us it should be "nailed down" (MW Question 6/2/14)? Horns are nail-like pointy objects and horns are biologically similar to fingernails and toenails (take your pick, it's just a hypothetical!) so this answer to WWWH would explain his particular word choice of "nailed down." In my assessment: eh, but not unreasonable. I'm not arguing that "I know what it's for;)"--just that it isn't too far of a leap.

Goldilocks suggested in another thread
that "the 9 dolls may represent the 9 clues," referring to the Yazzi
Yarnell dolls of SB231.  Could be!  Doll #1 is a buffalo with buffalo
horns and has a beaded buffalo doll of its own.  Bull?  Probably, like the rest of this, but it's
something to consider.

Of course, as you and Astree pointed out, one can find buffalo, horns, or horn-like things throughout the Rockies.  Just like "there are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt" (MW Question 8/12/14) and "10 billion blazes out there" (The Lure Post-Screening Q&A 5/18/17).

[davebakedpotato]

Dec 3, 2019 15:57:52 GMT -5 Apple said:

Dave: Across and down. = crossword (?) Or a place where two horns cross?

Dave, a crossword, an intersection. Buffalo Horn Creek intersects the Gallatin River. I'm not advocating that this is the 100% "I know what it's for;)" correct interpretation but, in my opinion, it is not an unreasonable one. Let's assume this is the answer to the first clue: WWWH. Fenn tells us it should be "nailed down" (MW Question 6/2/14)? Horns are nail-like pointy objects and horns are biologically similar to fingernails and toenails (take your pick, it's just a hypothetical!) so this answer to WWWH would explain his particular word choice of "nailed down." In my assessment: eh, but not unreasonable. I'm not arguing that "I know what it's for;)"--just that it isn't too far of a leap.

Goldilocks suggested in another thread
that "the 9 dolls may represent the 9 clues," referring to the Yazzi
Yarnell dolls of SB231.  Could be!  Doll #1 is a buffalo with buffalo
horns and has a beaded buffalo doll of its own.  Bull?  Probably, like the rest of this, but it's
something to consider.

Of course, as you and Astree pointed out, one can find buffalo, horns, or horn-like things throughout the Rockies.  Just like "there are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt" (MW Question 8/12/14) and "10 billion blazes out there" (The Lure Post-Screening Q&A 5/18/17).

Ok, but there is no need to have horn going across with horn going down in that case. Why not have horn intersecting with gallatin, or river, or some other word?

I like 'nail' a lot

All my stuff is also conjecture, so please don't think I have any answers. Imagine we're a bunch of cops chewing over an unsolved case

D

[van]

Horn could be part of little bighorn battlefield.

[sparrow]

Interestingly enough, I have been waiting for Dal to post a "solve" I sent to him. It was my first solve-- I came up with it two weeks after joining the Chase. It is LARGELY based on the (2) main "horns" in the first stanza.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised when you see how they work into the solve. If Dal ever posts it, it is the third installment of "Sparrow's Speculations". I actually think it was a great solve. I believe now that it is hidden elsewhere, but the string of coincidences I met putting the solve together were nothing short of amazing. I hope Dal posts it soon. It will be loads of fun for searchers to read.

[astree]

.
Sparrow. I enjoyed reading through your first two Sparrows Speculations at dals, so looking forward to the third, if it gets posted. There are at least 6 horns in the grouping, and ED can be added to get some HORNED combinations.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycerate#Mythology

Dave wrote:

“The two horns are an acrostic of Hint Of Riches New...and the 20th letters of each of the first four lines. To get this to work seems like such a feat of engineering as to be unlikely, especially if you believe stanza 1 has other useful information in it. Does this fall foul of the 'riddles, drones and ciphers' warning”

Alright, since Thankgiving just passed and Dave mentioned a foul...here is a two step cipher feat 

The letters of HORN can be back (Caesar) shifted 3 letters to produce ELOK. (the letters EOLK are directly below the 20th letters HORN, beginning with the 20th letter ... the E in “waters”, O in canyon and LK in walk. The ELOK is also joined to the EYE/KEY stack elsewhere).

Anyway, ELOK in Malay and Kurd can be translated as “good turkey”

The above posted “for entertainment purposes only”

[zaphod73491]

davebakedpotato wondered: "Ok, but there is no need to have horn going across with horn going down in that case. Why not have horn intersecting with gallatin, or river, or some other word?"

Well, in effect, it does. The "Gallitan" acrostic spans the H of the vertical HORN: 5 letters before, 3 after. (Or 6 after if you include WMT, as I do.) But personally, I don't think the horns are "clues," because Forrest has said the clues in the poem are in order, and there can be no clue in the first stanza since we know WWWH is clue #1. At most those horns are hints -- and not very helpful hints if you don't have WWWH solved since there are horn possibilities all over the Rockies.