Why Colorado?

[Jenny]

In effort to come to some sort of consensus on a state, can we list 'reasons' for Why Colorado? What makes it possible, etc.... (I'll be creating a Thread for each State)

[nkown]

Sorry for the copy / paste from another thread... here is why, partially:

The USAFA is not urban.... it's in Colorado Springs. It's a beautiful mountain setting... Stanley Canyon is there (Stanley Marcus) at 7,500 ft of elevation (the cost of that painting in that SB), right at the end of 411 Drive (information please SB).

If you open it up on Google Maps every name should jump out at you... not one or two, dozens... if you've read the Q&A's on this site, SB's, etc.

Remember that comment about WWIII destroying the treasure site? I doubt Yellowstone is a target of ICBM's. I'm 100% sure the USAFA is. Odd comment right?

Google the USAFA Cornerstone + Waymarking and you'll see that President Kennedy gave a talk there that was released by JBB Enterprises... (Joe Billy Bob). That Esmerelda is the name of Dal's car on HoD, and of course she was Quasimodo's friend and he guarded a bell tower. She, btw, was a gypsy. The bell tower plays music. Gypsy music.

Remember when Skippy blows himself up because he 'discharged' some fireworks and he said a lot in those 515 words? Form 515 is the 'discharge' papers from the USAFA hospital.

Ursa Major is the big bear (bears all over the SB's). Ursa Minor is the little bear. Polaris is the north star around which everything turns. The carillon is positioned in such a way that on the fall solstice (which is intentionally mis-dated in a scrapbook) the shadow lines up perfectly east to west... only on that date. I figured that out using an app called the Photographers Ephemerus... and I found that app? In a comment on HoD from an account that knew a bit too much.

This carillon is a bell tower... Fenn mentions bells and bell towers throughout... but never the word Carillon. Never the state of Colorado. But he does mention that a certain college in Colorado should have given him an honorary degree. The USAFA is a college.

Once anyone starts looking at names you'll see that they are all right there... I've been reluctant to share this for quite a long time as I then turned to deciphering the poem with these places in mind. I have many thoughts on how to do this... mirrored, skip-pi, phonically, solfege. But I have yet to see any other place with exact word and name references:

• Doolittle (hall)
• Amelia Erhardt (statue)
• Falcon -- stadium and trail (not a human trail)
• Parade Rd -- my hit parade
• Pinion
• 411 Drive -- information please
• Stanley Canyon
• Deadman's Creek
• Heavy Loads -- armaments everywhere, including his exact plane type
• Waters High -- look above the USAFA and above Stanley Canyon
• Polaris
• Bell tower
• Sneed and Demeret -- Match at the golf course
• Oldes -- resting place
• We Will Remember Them -- cited by Dal, plays on the carillon
• Verdin castings -- google Fenn + Verdin.. that's who made the bells donated around the TC time
• 8.25 miles exactly from the Glenna Goodacre statue of Hap Arnold (General Solve, literally) to the Sante Fe trailhead -- 66k links
• Gardiner's island... the whole place was Charles Gardiner's sanitarium, not Ahab's.
• Woodmen road -- google benevolent society of Woodmen who owned the property -- Axe, Dove, Stump logo. Familiar?
• When Fenn was asked if somewhere in WY rang any bells he replies, "What do you mean by ringing bells?"
• Etc.

I've read a LOT of solves... I've never seen a single one that resolves to a place like all of these mentions from FF... and about 20 more. I have several giant google docs outlining the connections to Fenn writings resolving to USAFA places.

What's more -- it makes sense. It is literally guarded 24/7 from everything -- fires, vagrants, onlookers, etc... while being completely open to the public for much of it's space. You can go out there and see no one for hours. And it's a very, very special place... quiet, serene, and beautiful.

Remember that old Spanish lock mechanism video on this site that Jenny posted? I believe that somewhere near that carillon there is a bronze FF commissioned that had a simple hidden mechanism. FF flew from his one favorite spot to his final spot... the last flight of forrest fenn, alone... went the canyon down, not far but too far to walk (he flew) and landed at an FBO nearby. Drove a rented sedan to the parking area of the USAFA cemetery where he shall return someday... and opened the hidden compartment, placed the chest in, and got the only food you can buy there publicly... oddly, a Subway sandwich. Might as well bring a sandwich.

He would know the chest is wet because bronze is cold to the touch, just like the statue of the Indian in Teachers with Ropes. But inside it would condensate... cool nights, sunny days... and rain down on the chest. Because of physics.

You would have to brave the cold... touch the bronze (it says "DO NOT TOUCH")... just like those students in order to retrieve the chest.

Alas, I never did complete the whole poem... and never found that bronze. But it's under a canopy of stars alright... a giant US flag right nearby.

[seannm]

Jenny,

The book, outside of the poem, talks about each state except Colorado, therefore searchers were prone to believe, based on their biases, that it then had to be in either Montana, Wyoming or New Mexico. That alone is not any sort of confirmation nor confidence builder that Colorado is/was the correct state, but it not being mentioned in the book was reason enough for most searchers to not ever consider it because there was no “hint” to it being the correct state, and most searchers believed that the subtle clues and or hints would point to the correct state or geographic region. And most searchers inability to believe that the poem itself was enough information to figure out the correct starting point, and thus then state, led to their believing it had to be in any state except Colorado.

But I could soon be proven wrong, but I highly doubt it.

Seannm

[zaphod73491]

Jun 10, 2020 20:54:50 GMT -5 hillbillyhound said:

Also, he said it might be 100 years before someone finds it. CO is the centennial state.

Alligator contains every letter from Gallatin except the N. Amos 'N' Andy in TTOTC was missing an apostrophe, perhaps to draw attention to that N.

[davebakedpotato]

Well the best solution to any poem line I have ever seen is still this, from Shaun Whitehead (posted with permission):

Not far, but too far to walk = Telluride

Apparently Telluride may well be a contraction of the phrase 'to hell you ride'.

Not far, but too far to walk - to hell you ride.

Perfect, huh?

I never managed to work this up into a solution I was satisfied with, but it's the sort of neat, accurate answer I hope the clues resolve to.

[gnossos]

Moffat County Colorado

Well, just for one: On page 128 of the book ("If Robert Redford had ever written a book" -TToTC chapter "Great Literature") "The Outlaw Trail"- Robert Redford © 1976

• Shows Where Warm(cool) Waters Halt(flow)
• Shows Home of Brown
  
• Shows Meek (look very carefully in background)
  
• Posse is Drawing Nigh
  

The spot is approximately 6 miles east (behind the photographer) of the spot of this image, but y'all already knew this.

Edit- Knowing that Fenn was a nut about history, I would wager that he has a first edition of this book and it is signed by Mr. Redford.

[indulgenceseeker]

My HOB is the Willey Lumber Camp (in the wood) which is a few miles down from Cameron Pass (10,200') heading west to Gould (pronounced 'gold'), CO on US 14. I was researching Dal’s sight to find a reason my solve didn’t work when I saw the pic of FF's dog Willie in Dal's SB249. Holy crap…that cheeky poker face had been trolling us since 2017: He eponymously named his new dog after the HOB. That was the third "aha" moment and the one that cinched it for me.


The first came when I realized that many clues in the poem had double meanings. I had always thought the Continental Divide (another’s conjecture) was WWWH; and I’d focused all my solves around that starting point. But I had seen on this forum the idea of clues with double meanings... and it clicked. I had been looking in the Cache la Poudre river basin and had poked around in the N Platte drainage within "the big bullpen" area of north Park County. The big bullpen is framed in on all sides by high mountains. The southeast corner of the pen is made by the Never Summer Range. When it’s never summer there are never warm waters: moment of insight. Thus, WWWH, had two reference points: The Never Summer Range at the Continental Divide.


Short version is follow the Michigan River (it) from its headwaters (American Lakes - hear me all) in the Michigan Ditch (in the canyon down) along the road (too far to walk) to the Willey Lumber Camp (HOB) about 5 miles away. Get in the river (put in) at the small bridge just below and slightly downstream (below the HOB). Turn left up Agnes Creek (your creek) which is fed from Agnes Lake where paddle craft are not allowed (no paddle up your creek). The blaze is in the small rocky outcropping (under a canopy of stars) on top of the wooded hill (marvel gaze of postcard beauty) between the creek and the popular trail to Nokhu Cabin: about half way up. The Agnes Creek drainage is very lush and forested when not buried under 6’ of snow. And if you trace the path to Indulgence from 30,000' in GE, it makes a smiley face (the end is ever drawing nigh.)


The second aha was recognizing that almost all of the mountains in this area fit the clues in the poem. The cirque above Agnes Lake is formed by the Cloud Peaks (water high), Static Peak (heavy loads), Mt Richthofen (named after Baron von Richthofen – give you title ), the Nokhu Crags, Mt Mahler (listen good) and the southern terminus of the Medicine Bow Range. It forms a  semi-circle: an unnaturally uniform one. When you're zooming through GE @ 30,000’ it will catch the eye. Spin that area a quarter turn where the east is on top...and watch how the topography of this unique meeting of the mountains forms a "peace" sign. FF said to get the big picture; he was a pilot who had to study the aeronautical maps and knew of this formation. Just take the chest and go in peace. (Note: In FF's original version of poem, the phrase "go in peace" was not used. The line was something about "leaving his bones." So, why the need for that phrase "go in peace?" It was critical to location.) 

FF said to study the maps and marry the clues in the poem to geography; that’s what I did. I had planned BOTG June 19. I emailed this solve to Fenn in early January 2020.

The blaze is still there; and the box will have left a mark. Someone’s solve is bound to be right and there’s still time to prove it.

Finally, for me, the chase was a preservation of hope. It kept me putting one foot in front of the other, in life's struggles, when I felt like stopping. Without hope, I lose confidence. And when I lose confidence, I doubt myself and don't take action. Hope is essential for me and many others I'm sure. For that, FF, I love you Man.

[indulgenceseeker]

It's in the northern half of CO because that's the only area where the habitat ranges of eastern cottonwoods, pinyon pines, and wetland sedge grasses overlap.

This is deduced from two reliable/knowable pieces of information through public disclosure: the picture of the treasure (taken shortly after finding) and ff's announcement.

1. If you accept that the pinecones in the picture are pinyon pine cones in varying stages of decay, that eliminates WY and MT.
2. If you accept that the dried piece of wood in the upper right corner is desiccated eastern Cottonwood, that eliminates NM; and it eliminates southern CO above 5,000'.
3. If you accept that the sedge grass is a wetland area grass and the treasure was found lying amidst lush, forested vegetation, that pretty much eliminates the southern half of CO as well.


It's in the northern half of CO between 5,000' and 10,200'.

[zaphod73491]

Since I don't accept your #1 (it's unambiguously a lodgepole pine cone in my opinion), New Mexico is eliminated. My location has lodgepole pines, cottonwoods, and a fen. I'd say I'm in pretty good shape.

[edgewalker]

Jun 10, 2020 18:05:39 GMT -5 Jenny said:

In effort to come to some sort of consensus on a state, can we list 'reasons' for Why Colorado? What makes it possible, etc.... (I'll be creating a Thread for each State)

Hi Jenny. For us non conformists how about a thread for Why Somewhere Not In Montana, Wyoming, Colorado or NM?

[indulgenceseeker]

Paul Paul in his latest video is saying "I"/"eye" is the key word: see Paul Paul.

The eye on the wooden stick next to the key inside the treasure pic was meant as a hint for us to get the bird's "eye" view in order to know both wwwh and the final location. Paul Paul has also indicated that CO was the state where the treasure was found. A bird's eye view comes from its nest? A reference to an Eagle's nest maybe? The Nokhu Crags in the Never Summer Range: its name is derived from the Arapaho language, Neaha-no-xhu, meaning "Eagles Nest." The Nokhu Crags summit lies just northwest of the Continental Divide and Rocky Mountain National Park, near the headwaters of the Michigan River. The peak is prominently visible from CO 14 and can be seen throughout the southern North Park basin (the "big bullpen") where it is known also known as "the Crags" or "Sleeping Indian" for its resemblance to the form of a supine chief. To the east lie the shallow basins of Snow Lake and the Michigan or American Lakes; to the north lies a snow filled couloir; to the west the mountain descends directly into the deep waters of Lake Agnes; and to the south lie Static Peak, Mount Richthofen, and the remainder of the Never Summer Mountain Range.

[indigojones]

Jun 10, 2020 18:05:39 GMT -5 Jenny said:

In effort to come to some sort of consensus on a state, can we list 'reasons' for Why Colorado? What makes it possible, etc.... (I'll be creating a Thread for each State)

Hi Jenny, why Colorado? because it is the only state connected to a rainbow as it has COLORADO in it.

The state's name also conceals what we are looking for and where to find it.
STANZA 6 Line 2 says: "Your effort will be worth the cold"

COLORADO has 'COLD' in it in order. Notice that it embraces the name 'ORA' the school janitor in the book.
The name 'ORA' means 'LIGHT' it leaves us with a letter 'O' for 'CIRCLE' So the message reads:

'COLD LIGHT CIRCLE'

Now do you remember the scrapbook about The Phantom in the style of Edgar Allan Poe? There are three lines which read: "How deeper then must I explore, Quoth the Phantom 4-2-4, Only this and nothing more.
For 4-2-4 read 'four to four'
COLORADO is the only even number lettered state. It can be split into two groups of four.
COLO/RADO if you do this and anagram each group of four you get 'LOCO ROAD' and this is what i discovered at the ninth clue, the blaze. Is that coincidence?                'indigo'

[indulgenceseeker]

Jun 22, 2020 12:15:42 GMT -5 indulgenceseeker said:

Paul Paul in his latest video is saying "I"/"eye" is the key word: see Paul Paul.

The eye on the wooden stick next to the key inside the treasure pic was meant as a hint for us to get the bird's "eye" view in order to know both wwwh and the final location. Paul Paul has also indicated that CO was the state where the treasure was found. A bird's eye view comes from its nest? A reference to an Eagle's nest maybe? The Nokhu Crags in the Never Summer Range: its name is derived from the Arapaho language, Neaha-no-xhu, meaning "Eagles Nest." The Nokhu Crags summit lies just northwest of the Continental Divide and Rocky Mountain National Park, near the headwaters of the Michigan River. The peak is prominently visible from US 14 and can be seen throughout the southern North Park basin (the "big bullpen") where it is known also known as "the Crags" or "Sleeping Indian" for its resemblance to the form of a supine chief. To the east lie the shallow basins of Snow Lake and the Michigan or American Lakes; to the north lies a snow filled couloir; to the west the mountain descends directly into the deep waters of Lake Agnes; and to the south lie Static Peak, Mount Richthofen, and the remainder of the Never Summer Mountain Range.

To further my assertion that CO is the state....a list of hints that match places on a good map that will lead you to the treasure locale:

"hear me all" - American Lakes
"listen good" - Mt Mahler
"heavy loads" - Static Mountain
"water high" - the Cloud Peaks
"worth the cold" - Never Summer Range
"no paddle up your creek" - Agnes Creek drains from Agnes Lake - a no paddle craft fishing spot
"in the wood" - Willey Lumber Camp (HOB)
"brave" - Nokhu Crags aka "the Sleeping Indian"
"title" - Mt Richthofen (named by Clarence King after baron von R)
"gold" - Gould, CO

The clues are tagged in the aerial GE view:
clues and hints - a good map

And the final perspective to bring home the key word in the poem's solve for me: peace
and go in peace - a solve

[indulgenceseeker]

FF said the chest's location would stun folks on how easy it was to get to. It's an easy drive up I-25 from Santa Fe to Ft Collins. Just take a left at CO 14 and head up the Poudre Canyon highway to the first left past Cameron Pass for the Agnes Lake & Nokhu Cabin trail.

Estimated trip itinerary:
day 1 - Santa Fe to Ft Collins
day 2 - Ft Collins to Agnes Lake turn off and back
day 3 - Ft Collins to Santa Fe

[zaphod73491]

Jun 23, 2020 15:34:31 GMT -5 indulgenceseeker said:

FF said the chest's location would stun folks on how easy it was to get to.

To my knowledge, Forrest has never said that. I happen to ~believe~ it is relatively easy to get there, but Forrest has never actually come out and addressed the difficulty as far as driving or hiking.