Charleston new stuff?

[diceycat]

Thought I would post a possible final location after some deliberation. Most think the casque is in White point Garden others think it’s on Sullivan’s island, (sorry ,way too much bacon to come to that conclusion that it’s on Sullivan’s island ), ( where’s the park by the water/ cannon/ White House close at hand?not to mention the capstan of the Maine etc.)
I believe we are looking below the bar that binds the Brooke type cannon specifically at the SW corner of White Point Garden.
Even though some claim they have probed every square inch of the park, I doubt it ,or maybe it was destroyed by workers  over the years. There are somethings that don’t make sense. Then again the colours might be different on the original painting.
The lions mane could just be for the USS Maine tie in.

Now I understand why there is blue around the cannon. It’s because they are Brooke guns/cannons ( a play on words sounds the same as  Brook as in the creek water).






The cannon above and the cannon below are both the exact same cannon. Just different views 

[choice]

What do you mean "the compass is rotated to 4? 4 o'clock position is @ 120 degrees. Fort Sumter's position in the image is @ 145 degrees (estimate).
Poe means peacock.
Edgar and Edwin are synonyms.

[diceycat]

You see that the Fort Sumter painting image is tilted a bit . Now if you wanted to get that same view as on a map then you would have to rotate the north point on a compass ie. the 12 O’clock position of the compass to a 4 O’clock position so the image in the painting and the image on the rotated map align . Again this is just a theory and to place it close enough to a 4 O’clock position.This is not exact science. I would say your 145degree image above is close. It just maybe that Fort Sumter is in a 4 O’clock position from White Point Garden or it’s the shadow cast by the palm tree at 4pm.




As far as the butterfly being a Peacock and tied to Poe? I think it’s a solution that’s looking for an answer. Too many things pointing to White point garden as the location.
Your assumption is that the bird in the wing is a peacock and the fact that there happens to be a peacock butterfly. While my assumption is that it’s a parrot and it might not even refer to a butterfly. I don’t see any antennas on the girls head to say it’s even a butterfly. I don’t think one can claim that all fairies with wings are butterflies.
Your leaping from peacock to Poe and I’m going from parrot to Parrott.
Even the crossed Fairy legs represent the shallow waters that mix and exit towards the Atlantic from White Point Garden and pass by Fort Sumter.
And no Synonyms, just definitions. It’s like herding cats. 

I’ll ask you this. Why is there a star on painting of the Fort Sumter image. Is it because it’s a star attraction or is it to orientate the image so the star points north or is it just part of the Stars and Stripes on the face. Those stripes don’t really match a red, white and blue very well. That’s why I think it might be printer’s error. Colour matters.

[diceycat]

This is it ,final answer. Took a look at it again , with the image and the photos below this should explain it all. I caution that 40 years have passed and the ground may have been disturbed in this location.
The two arms extended are the two larger cannons ( in pic below the mortar cannon #3and the Parrott type, cannon #1) with the smaller cannon in between.
On the wing in the painting you see what I previously had labeled “ stone work” encircles( partially at least) those 3 cannon images and the stone work completely encircles those same cannons in the park.

First off the casque is buried in sand, not grass. The only place you see the sand is on the pathways in White Point garden .Sure the sand might be compact and hard but then it’s probably not buried down deep. I think when he says sand he means sand ,not grass, top soil then sand. Even when he uses the word “ embedded “ , that’s telling me it’s going to be difficult digging.
Anyways this is the way I see it.






Im sure when in comes to the palm trees, they would be replaced with the same type of tree if one got knocked over by a Hurricane or got damaged or died off, especially when the sidewalk area is designed to have a tree in that location 

[choice]

There are so many visual and verse references to Sullivan's Island and Battery Gadsden that listing them all makes for a long-winded post.
I'll bullet point a few:

• Gold VW Bug in lion’s head, eyes being hubcaps
• Pear is for Pearman Bridge going to Sullivan’s Island.
• Branch from the pear is the Coleman BLVD that leads to Ben Sawyer BLVD (strings that hold “Fort Sumter”). This BLVD leads to Battery Gadsden area.
• I have Fort Sumter in quotes because I think it represents Gadsden in a rebus. The middle is a flagpole with star/stripes, top is image with mirror image of “don’t” sign, bottom is image + mirror image of screw thread. Don’t tread on me flag.
• Flower is similar to palmetto on SC flag. Crescent of the moon in the pear. Shadow of the flower pointed to by hanging petal in the painting is a flag.
• Mirror image repeats in multiple places. Top wings for example. Two circles on each side. Raven pecking at one. This is layout of Battery Gadsden with two mirrored wings. Image below. Poe’s Library moved there in 1979.
• Notice 2 round curves below the circles in the painting. Those are two rows of steps at the battery.
• Peacock butterfly for Poe.
• Edgar and Edwin both mean happy
• Sullivan’s Island is in the white sandy area of the butterfly wing.

[diceycat]

Well if you believe it’s there, and I’m not saying it is or isn’t, show me how the verse fits ( everything should be seen in or from the park treasure ground that the verse is talking about. Where are the two arms extended, the burial site sand and how it relates to these two arms.
Where is your White House ? I know where it is beside White point garden, ( Washington house). What about the capstan of the USS Maine and the writing on it? ignore that?  He talks about the angle of the arms extended . Where are the arms ( they better be sticking out), and where is the palm tree casting the shadow on the sand?
I’m a visual creature, pictures tell me more than words. I need photos and lots of them. Compare the photos to the painting by lines. What is represented by what.
A VW beetle

So essentially what your saying is even though White point garden outline and location is shown clearly on the face mask map it’s a nothing burger, ignore it??? Go find another park?

I will wait patiently  for your full theory.

[choice]

I've posted all these ad nauseam but here we go again!
Gold VW bug for Edgar Allan Poe's The Gold Bug, a treasure hunt in Sullivan's Island.
There are many locations pictured in the painting including WPG, Sullivan's Island, Fort Sumter
Drum Island and so on.
The outline of the WPG you mentioned, follow the outline that continues to south east and ends up
at the tip of the wing with two circles, two steps and a raven pointing to it with it's beak.
The Raven, another reference to Poe Library.
I explained the palm in my last post. Palmetto on SC's flag. Look at the shadow of the flower in the image.
It's a flag. Arms extended could be where cannons were.
Bar that binds, there are round bars mounted on the wall that look just like chain link that bound slaves.
These chain links are shown in the painting on the raven as a circle that looks like a target.

[diceycat]

Sorry , still don’t buy it. Where’s the sand between the two arms extended? Should it not be below the bar that binds ( you only get one bar that binds)? Well that SC flag better be nearby casting a shadow. at 4pm or at the very least a palm tree.
Yes there are many depictions of landmarks but none with a park in it other than WPG.
Are you sure there were cannons there in 1981 and were they angled to one another?
I only see you talk about the last 5 or 6 lines of the verse .What about the rest of the verse.
What about the writing on the USS Maine capstan.

[theo]

Mar 20, 2022 11:08:55 GMT -5 diceycat said:

The two arms extended are the two larger cannons ( in pic below the mortar cannon #3and the Parrott type, cannon #1) with the smaller cannon in between.

I agree about White Point Garden being the destination, and about "arms" meaning the weapons in the park.  The circles on the butterfly's wings clearly suggest that we should be between two of them.  But how does "extended" work with your cannon #3?  That mortar is a short, squat thing.  It's almost like Preiss chose the word "extended" to specifically rule out that cannon.  And how are those two guns "hand in hand (same)" as you put it?  Those are completely different weapons.

Other problems:  Where's the "white house close at hand"?  Why the heavy emphasis on the lion's mane in the image?  Why the emphasis on "May 1913" in the verse?  How would we know which palm tree to use?  And how on earth would Preiss manage to make himself less visible if he were digging in this spot?

All of those problems disappear if you go around the corner to where the Maine monument stood in 1980.

1) The two big, matching columbiads are very definitely "arms extended."

2) There's a white house nearby.

3) There's only a single palm tree that can cast a shadow on the sand.

4) The monument to the Maine explains why the entire upper half of the image is given over to a lion's mane.

5) The sign on the monument had a final line down near ground level that simply said "May, 1913."

6) The monument was a big block that would have hidden any digger from the view of cars passing by on the street.

Yeah, it means that the casque is gone for good.  But that doesn't change the solution.

[diceycat]

I don’t disagree. It could very well have been buried where you say, but and there is always a but.
We’re those two Columbiads  at different elevations to one another? He stressed the angle of the arms( two arms? certainly the girl has two arms). Usually they position the same type of cannons at the same angle of elevation, though can’t say that for certain.
Both the mortar and the Brooke( Parrott type ) guns are just that ,arms of war.. They are both the same in that they are cannons/ guns / weapons that lobbed cannon balls. BP never said they were exactly the same in appearance , just that they were arms ( weapons) and the angle they formed to one another is a clue.
Do you really think he would bury it by a national historic object like the capstan of the USS Maine . Maybe ,maybe not ,don’t know ,all I know is I wouldn’t.

At 4pm where exactly did the shadow fall and was there a binding bar on the capstan? Cause the binding bar is somewhere between the two cannons .
We agree that it had to be buried in the sand ( more like concrete sand)
Certainly there is only one/ maybe two buildings that fit that line “ White House close at hand”, and they are both in a direct line of vision along the path from the dig site
Certainly the lions mane along with the 1913 refers to the USS Maine capstan a confirmation to the park and maybe what end of the park to concentrate on.
So let’s review the lines “ between two arms extended ( even though that mortar cannon is a stubby one it’s still extended ,by definition .it just happens to be vertically challenged like most mortars ). So we agree he’s talking about two cannons and something in between them.

“Below the bar that binds”. So somewhere there is a binding bar in between these two cannons. Granted one could interpret the line in a different way since below could be south of the two cannons and there is something like a bar that binds there. Maybe , but what? I think he was referring to the binding bar of the middle cannon in my theory.

For the most part the verse gets you closer to the dig spot the further you read on. That’s pretty much a given .
How do you know which Palm tree to use? Well you figure out that near the end . First you have to find the bar that binds between the two arms extended then look for the shadow made by a palm tree at 4pm to confirm that this is the location. You know the bar that binds and the shadow are narrowing down the final location in the sand.
From what others say about the park in the 1980s is that it was not the place to be . Unsavoury characters abound etc. So if you had a so called workers vest on then no one would think twice about what your doing there and maybe even steer clear of you. I’m sure more people would cluster about a national historic piece like the USS Maine capstan than an obscure small cannon.

The thing with the palm tree is that 40 years have passed and we may never know for sure but like I said before if the design the sidewalk system is to hold a palm tree then even if a hurricane takes it out they will replant another tree in the exact same location. Assuming again that sidewalk design was there 40 years ago.

Im what you might call a centrist , in that the final location of the casque is close to the centre of the paintings. 
Also each object is placed on the painting in a logical pattern, ie it’s north of or above ( as in sky) the casque location if it falls above the center of the painting. Same applies to objects below the center they are south of the casque location or sunken down like the Joan of arc garden in Quebec City. Look at the fairies wing on the right side of the painting.It’s a match to Shutes Folly island, which is again east of the casque. JJP did not paint the clues randomly on the art board granted you might have to rotate sections like in Milwaukee but it’s still how one object relates to the other left of , right of etc.

Again it’s all theory but it makes logical sense to me. Keep it Simple , even a blind squirrel can find a few nuts.

[jon]

In artillery, chain shot is a type of cannon projectile formed of two sub-calibre balls, or half-balls, chained together. Bar shot is similar, but joined by a solid bar. They were used in the age of sailing ships and black powder cannon to shoot masts, or to cut the shrouds and any other rigging of a target ship

[theo]

Mar 21, 2022 10:52:51 GMT -5 diceycat said:

even though that mortar cannon is a stubby one it’s still extended ,by definition

I don't follow you there.  A finger can be described as being "extended."  A knuckle cannot.

The long barrels of the columbiads extend towards the sidewalk.  The barrel of the mortar cannon does not extend.

Mar 21, 2022 10:52:51 GMT -5 diceycat said:

was there a binding bar on the capstan? Cause the binding bar is somewhere between the two cannons .

In all of Charleston, I don't think you could find a better match for a "bar that binds" than... a CAPSTAN. 

A capstan is, by definition, a bar or cylinder that binds rope to pull it in.  The capstan IS the bar that binds between two arms extended.

I don't see how the historical relevance of the Maine would make the spot any less likely.  What mattered to Preiss was that the big concrete block would put him out of view of any police cars going by on the street.  And the verse and image connections to the capstan spot seem overwhelming.

[choice]

I think the lion is just the symbol of Africa. It's large mane is a good place to hide coordinates numbers and "liberty" in. Similar to other paintings.
In Boston painting the woman was a witch to symbolize Boston.
If you're not familiar with The Gold Bug, short story by Poe, it's about a treasure on Sullivan's Island. How the treasure was discovered is interesting.
There was a "skull" hanging off a tree branch. So to pinpoint the spot they dropped a bug from one eye socket. It's a fun read.
pinkmonkey.com/dl/library1/gold.pdf

[diceycat]

Mar 21, 2022 11:31:20 GMT -5 jon said:

In artillery, chain shot is a type of cannon projectile formed of two sub-calibre balls, or half-balls, chained together. Bar shot is similar, but joined by a solid bar. They were used in the age of sailing ships and black powder cannon to shoot masts, or to cut the shrouds and any other rigging of a target ship

Bar shot might sound like a reasonable choice but none on display in the park. Cannon balls yes

[diceycat]

Mar 21, 2022 13:11:18 GMT -5 theo said:

Mar 21, 2022 10:52:51 GMT -5 diceycat said:

even though that mortar cannon is a stubby one it’s still extended ,by definition

I don't follow you there.  A finger can be described as being "extended."  A knuckle cannot.

The long barrels of the columbiads extend towards the sidewalk.  The barrel of the mortar cannon does not extend.

Mar 21, 2022 10:52:51 GMT -5 diceycat said:

was there a binding bar on the capstan? Cause the binding bar is somewhere between the two cannons .

In all of Charleston, I don't think you could find a better match for a "bar that binds" than... a CAPSTAN. 

A capstan is, by definition, a bar or cylinder that binds rope to pull it in.  The capstan IS the bar that binds between two arms extended.

I don't see how the historical relevance of the Maine would make the spot any less likely.  What mattered to Preiss was that the big concrete block would put him out of view of any police cars going by on the street.  And the verse and image connections to the capstan spot seem overwhelming.

Seriously, what your saying is the mortar gun has no length ,even though the mortar barrel is longer than a hand gun barrel and both are arms. Length does not matter. The cannon doesn’t have to stick in your face .The finger and the knuckle are both extended if your starting point is your shoulder. It’s all relative .

Crack open a dictionary ( Merriam Webster preferred ) and show me where it says a capstan is a bar or visa versa

Im not so sure that he was that worried about being seen. He buried a casque out in the wide open baseball field in Boston.
As far as the police go, when was the last time you saw the police randomly stop a city worker while they were working?

Im not saying the capstan doesn’t play a part but the way I see it it’s by that small cannon makes more sense to me.
It’s all theory until someone digs it up.