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Post by Bownarrow on Apr 5, 2024 5:23:02 GMT -5
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Post by Bownarrow on Apr 5, 2024 6:07:07 GMT -5
fr.geneawiki.com/wiki/Suisse_-_Saint-SulpiceThe village of Saint-Sulpice ( canton of Neuchâtel in Switzerland) depicts a Vouivre/Wyvern in it’s coat of arms. The Church of Saint-Sulpice in Paris features prominently in the RLC story. Perhaps the reference to this church has to do with it’s link to the Voivre via the village of it’s name sake in Switzerland
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Post by Bownarrow on Apr 5, 2024 6:25:39 GMT -5
One of the most interesting statements that I have been able to find about the Wyvern/ Vouivre / Guivre is :
“ Le guivre se retrouve dans l’armorial de la maison d’Autriche et elle est grave sur tous les monuments ayant appartenu a l’ordre du Temple.”
Translation:
“The guivre is found in the heraldic arms of the House of Austria and is engraved on all monuments that belonged to the Order of the Temple.”
Although the whole statement is interesting, it is the connection between the ‘guivre’ and The Order of the Temple that is especially interesting given the title of Ben Hammott’s book : “Lost Tomb of the Knights Templar”.
Having found this statement about a connection between the Wyvern and the Order of the Temple, I have not yet come across any evidence that supports it.
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Post by Bownarrow on Apr 5, 2024 7:44:52 GMT -5
www.reinedumidi.com/rlc/basilics.htmJe n'ai pas lu grand chose à propos de ces basilics dans la littérature castelrennaise, à l'exception d'André Douzet qui lui au moins ne les prend pas pour des salamandres, et de Pierre Plantard dans sa préface à la vraie langue celtique . Voici ce qu'écrivit Plantard : "Les deux prêtres ont signé ce travail, car au-dessus du diable, soutenu par deux "basilics" (petits rois) liés d’un anneau, se trouve un cachet rouge aux lettres d’or "B.S.", initiales de Boudet-Saunière..... On ne peut confondre les basilics de Rennes-le-Château avec des salamandres, entièrement reptiliennes d'aspect. Ici, crête, bec et narines signent bien un basilic et non une salamandre. Notons qu' il est très rare de trouver des basilics sur des blasons et encore plus sur des bénitiers ! “On the benitier of the Church in RLC are depicted a couple of creatures that are described in the literature as ‘ basilisks’. bestiary.ca/beasts/beast265.htmThe basilisk is described as a crested snake or as a cock with a snake's tail. It is called the king (regulus) of the serpents because its Greek name basiliscus means "little king"time.mystiek.net/vouivre.htmVOUIVRE
THE GAULIC SNAKE AND DRAGON GODDESS
King of serpents (Vouivre gets sometimes male in late Middle Ages)
In the valley of Guebwiller, there once lived the king of the serpents of Heissenstein. He comes to the river Lauch for taking a bath, putting down his crown to a rock. If you can take the crown in this moment, you will be rich and happy for your whole life. But if you don't take care, the king whistles loud to call all the snakes of the region and they will catch you.The basilisk is called ‘ The King of the Serpents”. This name is also given to the ‘ Vouivre/Wyvern’.This ’coincidence’ raises the question: Were the basilisks depicted on the benitiet in the church at RLC intended as a clue indicating the ‘ Vouivre/ Wyvern? The Voivre is connected with water, and bathes in water. It would seem therefore a fitting symbol to have on a benitier. www.renneslechateau.nl/2007/11/10/st-antoine/In 1670, François Charles Fouquet, bishop of Narbonne (and brother of Nicolas Fouquet, Treasurer under Louis XIV). commissioned a painting of St. Augustine from Ambroise Frédeau. Frédeau painted his work on top of an existing painting of St. Antoine by David Teniers the Younger. We can be certain of that from recordings in the journal of Abbé Henri Gasc in 1859 and 1872 and better still, from an etching of the interior dated 1850. Abbé Henri Gasc is himself believed to have changed the St. Augustine back into St. Antoine around 1870 by removing his torch and overpainting the name of the Engraving of Notre Dame de Marceille in 1850artist with a rock (left corner). Was he removing possible clues? It is known that St. Augustine was present during the sack or Rome on 24th August 410 by Alaric I and the Visigoths. Perhaps it was this, David Teniers painting that is connected to Saunière in some way. Many thanks to expert on Notre Dame de Marceille, Frank Daffos.In the Church of Notre Dame de Marceille in Limoux is a painting of St.Anthony. This painting was originally a painting of Saint Anthony by David Teniers the Younger. It was subsequently changed into a portrait of St.Augustine by the artist Ambroise Fredeau. It was later changed back into St.Augustine by it is believed by Abbe Henri Gasc. www.reinedumidi.com/rlc/basilics.htmA ce propos, Saint Loup de Troyes, présent dans Notre Dame de Marceille (voir ici) a lui aussi tué, selon une même improbable légende, un monstre très proche du basilic, le cocatrix. Ce St Loup n'est pas très éloigné dans le sanctuaire marial d'un archange St Michel terrassant son dragon et en face d'un St Antoine qui autrefois fut surpris en son érémitique solitude par un ou des monstres ailés (basilics à tête de coq, pourquoi pas ?). Et nous serons étonnés de découvrir bientôt, ensemble, un autre saint tueur de dragon à ...Notre Dame du Cros.
Translation:.
In this regard, Saint Loup de Troyes, present in Notre Dame de Marceille (see here) also killed, according to the same improbable legend, a monster very close to the basilisk, the cockatrice. This St Wolf is not very far away in the Marian sanctuary of an archangel St Michael slaying his dragon and opposite a St Anthony who was once surprised in his eremitic solitude by one or more winged monsters (rooster-headed basilisks , why not ?). And we will be amazed to soon discover, together, another dragon-slaying saint at...Notre Dame du Cros.www.reinedumidi.com/images/basil08.gifwww.reinedumidi.com/images/basil07.gifWhat is interesting about this painting is the ‘Voivre/Wyvern” like creature seemingly painted out but still visible on the shoulder of St.Anthony.In his many paintings of the ‘ Temptation of St.Anthony’ Teniers often includes many fantastic creatures tempting St.Anthony. It seems reasonable to assume that the ‘vouivre’ like creature showing through indicates that the original painting by David Teniers was a ‘Temptation of St.Anthony’. upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/The_Temptation_of_St._Anthony%2C_detail%2C_by_David_Teniers_the_Younger%2C_1665-1670%2C_oil_on_canvas_-_National_Museum_of_Western_Art%2C_Tokyo_-_DSC08483.JPGIn the ‘ secret message’ contained in the large parchment, it refers to both “ Teniers and Poussin hold the Key”. It had already been shown how Poussin’s painting of ‘ The Shepherds of Arcadia‘ holds the key. The ‘ secret message’ also says’ no Temptation’. David Teniers the younger is known for his paintings of St. Anthony being tempted. The reference to ‘ No temptation’ therefore could be a reference to a painting by David Teniers the Younger that has been changed from a painting of St.Anthony being tempted( as the original painting by David Teniers appears to have been)and is no longer a temptation.This would fit the painting of St.Anthony in the Church of Notre Dame de Marceille. If then this is the painting of Teniers referred to in the ‘ secret message’ found in the large parchment, and the dragon/ serpent like creature seen on the shoulder of St.Anthony is intended to represent a Vouivre/Wyvern this painting does indeed contain the Key since the Wyvern has previously been correlated with The Virgin Mary through the Greek isopsephy value of βασίλισσα οὐρανοῦ - Queen of Heaven’ , one of the titles of The Virgin Mary, being 1745, - the same as the English gematria value of ‘ Wyvern’. It is interesting that the painting of St.Augustine by Ambroise Fredeau ( on top of the painting of St.Anthony by David Teniers) was commissioned in 1670, by François Charles Fouquet, bishop of Narbonne (and brother of Nicolas Fouquet, Treasurer under Louis XIV). In the much quoted letter from Abbe Louis Fouquet in 1656 to his brother Nicholas Fouquet, he says : “ He (Poussin) and I discussed certain things, which I shall with ease be able to explain to you in detail, things which will give you, through Monsieur Poussin, advantages which even kings would have great pains to draw from him, and which, according to him, it is possible that nobody else will ever discover in the centuries to come. And what is more, these are things so difficult to discover that nothing now on earth can prove of better fortune nor be their equal”m.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3084640See ‘Siblings’ Abbe Louis Fouquet , the author of the letter about Poussin, was not only the brother of Nicolas Fouquet, but also the brother of Francois Charles Fouquet who commissioned the painting of St. Augustine that was painted over the painting of St.Anthony by David Teniers the Younger depicting the Vouivre! This seems too much of a coincidence, and seems to establish a link between the ‘ key’ of Poussin and Teniers and the letter of Louis Fouquet to his brother Nicolas Fouquet in which he alludes to a ‘ secret’ of Nicolas Poussin. It also seems to establish the painting of St.Anthony in the church of Notre Dame de Marceille in Limoux as the ‘no Temptation’ painting of Teniers referred to in the ‘secret message’ message of the large parchment.
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Post by rubyfelixir on Apr 5, 2024 9:38:39 GMT -5
It seems odd to me that a painting in which there is nothing to see, should take up a third of the letter-positions of one board of the Large Cipher Message. Just how old is the Large Cipher Message meant to be? Did the parish priests at Rennes-le-Chateau just assume that the Large Cipher must be of great importance, so that they copied it, passing it down from priest to priest, long after the cipher's content had stopped being relevant or useful?
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The Key
Apr 5, 2024 10:09:31 GMT -5
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Post by Bownarrow on Apr 5, 2024 10:09:31 GMT -5
It seems odd to me that a painting in which there is nothing to see, should take up a third of the letter-positions of one board of the Large Cipher Message. Just how old is the Large Cipher Message meant to be? Did the parish priests at Rennes-le-Chateau just assume that the Large Cipher must be of great importance, so that they copied it, passing it down from priest to priest, long after the cipher's content had stopped being relevant or useful? Ruby, You lost me at' a painting in which there is nothing to see'. Can you explain that for me?
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The Key
Apr 5, 2024 12:40:53 GMT -5
Post by rubyfelixir on Apr 5, 2024 12:40:53 GMT -5
You suggest that the painting was re-painted twice. Like New York, New York, it was a painting so nice, they re-painted it, twice, and they re-named it, twice. Half of the painting appears now to have the saint looking into a big dark murk. The first re-paint redacted the original painting, in name and in content. The second re-paint redacted the first re-paint, in name and in content. So, which painting is the important painting? The original Teniers painting? Can the content be restored and viewed? The Fredeau re-paint, that removed Teniers content, but added all new Fredeau content? The Gasc re-paint, that removed the new Fredeau content, but did not do so to recover the Teniers content? This last paint job, the Gasc re-paint, has the least content of the three versions of this painting.
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Post by Bownarrow on Apr 6, 2024 7:50:30 GMT -5
You suggest that the painting was re-painted twice. Like New York, New York, it was a painting so nice, they re-painted it, twice, and they re-named it, twice. Half of the painting appears now to have the saint looking into a big dark murk. The first re-paint redacted the original painting, in name and in content. The second re-paint redacted the first re-paint, in name and in content. So, which painting is the important painting? The original Teniers painting? Can the content be restored and viewed? The Fredeau re-paint, that removed Teniers content, but added all new Fredeau content? The Gasc re-paint, that removed the new Fredeau content, but did not do so to recover the Teniers content? This last paint job, the Gasc re-paint, has the least content of the three versions of this painting. The ‘ Vouivre’ looks like it was typical of the type of creatures that Teniers painted, and given that it appears to have painted over, it seems to support the idea that it is from the Teniers original of St. Anthony. Such a creature is hardly likely to appear in a painting of St. Augustine! The online clue: Artists learnt to hide all that you can seeseems applicable to this painting. all -> awl( homophone) -> els(D.) -> alder(D.)-> l’ader -> the adder -> the viper -> the vouivre Artists learnt to hide the vouivre you can see
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The Key
Apr 6, 2024 8:17:48 GMT -5
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Post by Bownarrow on Apr 6, 2024 8:17:48 GMT -5
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The Key
Apr 6, 2024 9:22:08 GMT -5
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Post by Bownarrow on Apr 6, 2024 9:22:08 GMT -5
In his book ' La France Mythologique' , author Henri Dontenville writes about the XIIth century ' chanson - ‘ Florimont' by Aymon de Varennes. The ' Florimont' of the title of the chanson, is the son of Mataquas, king of Albania in the Balkans. Florimont has to protect the capital , Duras, against two curses, one of which is a devastating ' vouivre'. The ' vouivre' is therefore linked to the word ' Florimont'. Dontenville makes a point of noting that the word ' Florimont' is like ' montaigne florie'. www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/0/FlorieFlorie Pronunciation of Florie as a name for girls has its root in Latin, and Florie means "flowering, in bloom". Florie is an alternate form of Flora (Latin): ' Montaigne florie' which can be understood as ' flowering mountain' reminds one of the ' flowery mount' in the Fleury Tableau in the Church at RLC. If the ' flowery mount' in the tableau was intended to be a pointer towards ' Florimont' and the ' vouivre', this would make sense of the otherwise incongruous image of the sack of gold coins seen in the tableau, as vouivres/ Wyverns are said to be guardians of treasure - usually gold. In this way the Fleury Tableau can again be interpreted as a clue pointing to the Vouivre/Wyvern.
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Post by rubyfelixir on Apr 8, 2024 9:30:41 GMT -5
You have stated that Ab. Antoine Bigou was responsible for the Large Cipher Text that refers to a painting by Teniers. The Teniers painting in the church at Limoux was re-painted to that of a painting of Saint Augustine. This re-paint was the version of the painting that existed during the life-time of Ab. A. Bigou. Your argument I guess is that the purpose of the Augustine version was to hide what was in the original Antoine painting, but then why later change the Augustine back into an Antoine, if the content of the original Antoine can not be recovered by the attempt? Is it not more likely that the Augustine is the important painting, as it is the content of the Augustine version that was later removed, in what seems to be an attempt to 'restore' the Antoine, during the life-time of Ab. Berenger Sauniere. As a restoration it was futile, but it did succeed in erasing the content of the Augustine re-painting. Is it more likely that a brother of Nicolas Fouquet would commision a painting to be made to RECORD sensitive or secret information, or to ERASE secret information? If the clue is 'NO TEMPTATION', well, the Augustine re-paint deleted the original Antoine, so isn't it the Augustine that is not the Temptation? And how strange is it that in his cipher, Ab. Antoine Bigou referred to a painting of a subject that had the same name as him?
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The Key
Apr 9, 2024 13:21:16 GMT -5
Post by Bownarrow on Apr 9, 2024 13:21:16 GMT -5
More than the tau is shouldered by those who know“ Encoded by the masters who know Written by the masters who know”Rear cover of Maranatha - Et In Arcadia Ego book Those who know -> the masters ->the meisters(G.) -> this me trees -> this not (Gr.) coed(W.) -> this ton code -> this tone(F.) notae(L.) -> this note notes -> this nota(L.) stone -> this nota stein(G.) -> this St. Antoine More than the Tau is shouldered by this St.Antoineen.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tau_cross#/media/File%3AHl_Antonius_c1460s_ubs_G_0021_I.jpg( n.b. St.Anthony usually depicted with a cross in shape of a Tau on the shoulder of his cloak). www.reinedumidi.com/images/basil08.gifwww.reinedumidi.com/images/basil07.gifThis clue seems to support the idea that the St.Antoine at Notre Dame de Marceille in Limoux is the Teniers painting that the coded message in the Large Parchment refers to, as the ‘beast/wouivre/ wyvern’ showing through in the painting, is located above the shoulder of St.Anthony.
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The Key
Apr 9, 2024 13:49:50 GMT -5
Post by Bownarrow on Apr 9, 2024 13:49:50 GMT -5
You have stated that Ab. Antoine Bigou was responsible for the Large Cipher Text that refers to a painting by Teniers. The Teniers painting in the church at Limoux was re-painted to that of a painting of Saint Augustine. This re-paint was the version of the painting that existed during the life-time of Ab. A. Bigou. Your argument I guess is that the purpose of the Augustine version was to hide what was in the original Antoine painting, but then why later change the Augustine back into an Antoine, if the content of the original Antoine can not be recovered by the attempt? Is it not more likely that the Augustine is the important painting, as it is the content of the Augustine version that was later removed, in what seems to be an attempt to 'restore' the Antoine, during the life-time of Ab. Berenger Sauniere. As a restoration it was futile, but it did succeed in erasing the content of the Augustine re-painting. Is it more likely that a brother of Nicolas Fouquet would commision a painting to be made to RECORD sensitive or secret information, or to ERASE secret information? If the clue is 'NO TEMPTATION', well, the Augustine re-paint deleted the original Antoine, so isn't it the Augustine that is not the Temptation? And how strange is it that in his cipher, Ab. Antoine Bigou referred to a painting of a subject that had the same name as him? www.nationalgallery.org.uk/artists/david-teniers-the-youngerDavid Teniers was the most famous 17th-century painter of peasant life. He enjoyed international popularity in his own lifetime and during the 18th century, especially in France. Teniers's success was marked by the acquisition of a country house in 1662 and by the grant in 1680 of a patent of nobility. His work was imitated by many followers, including his son, David Teniers III.You are correct, Ruby,I do believe that the St.Augustine was commissioned to hide the St.Anthony to hide the Voivre. To paint over a Teniers painting, one of the most famous and successful artists of his time, a person who would choose to do so, would have to have a very good reason for doing so.To hide the ‘Vouivre’ would be a very good reason. www.renneslechateau.nl/2007/11/10/st-antoine/We can be certain of that from recordings in the journal of Abbé Henri Gasc in 1859 and 1872 and better still, from an etching of the interior dated 1850. Abbé Henri Gasc is himself believed to have changed the St. Augustine back into St. Antoine around 1870 by removing his torch and overpainting the name of the Engraving of Notre Dame de Marceille in 1850artist with a rock (left corner). www.renneslechateau.nl/2012/01/03/ships-in-distress/In December 2012, a new discovery was reported by Françoise Gasc, great great grand daughter of Henri Gasc. Henri Gasc was at one time the resident priest and guardian of Notre Dame de Marceille and mentor of the enigmatic Henri Boudet. Mrs. Gasc reported she had in her possession two paintings that had belonged to Henri Gasc that had been in her family for a long time. The painting allegedly were found by Gasc in the crypt of Notre Dame de Marceille. During 6 years, Mrs. Gasc and her husband had the paintings examined by a.o. the Brussels Art Laboratory and Celine Joliot who concluded that the paintings originated from the 17th century and were possbily by Nicolas Poussin.
If this is true, it is a sensational discovery for several reasons. In one hit it would physically link Nicolas Poussin, Henri Gasc and thus Henri Boudet. It would also lend greater credibility to the theories linking up the sanctuary of Notre Dame de Marceille with the Mystery of Rennes-le-Château, in which Nicolas Poussin plays center stage.
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The Key
Apr 9, 2024 14:18:52 GMT -5
Post by Bownarrow on Apr 9, 2024 14:18:52 GMT -5
www.google.co.uk/search?q=Gasc+henri+poussin&client=safari&sca_esv=be2d3384baa617c2&channel=ipad_bm&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiAyZvV5LWFAxX9XUEAHeP9CPEQ_AUIBigB&biw=768&bih=922#imgrc=vLRbqrF9FddCtMwww.lesecretdepoussin.com/images/Gasc-article-PrColantuono.pdfA pair of fine Baroque paintings in the collection of Mme. Françoise Gasc represent the subjects of Jonah and the Sea Monster (fig. 1) and Christ Calming the Seas (fig. 2)academic.oup.com/book/41213/chapter-abstract/350678533?redirectedFrom=fulltextThe Dragon in the West: From Ancient Myth to Modern Legend Daniel OgdenHow did the classical dragon, essentially just a massive snake in form, a worm, evolve, in early Christian culture, into the very particular fantasy creature we know as a ‘dragon’ today in the West? It is argued that the dragon acquired its animalian head and more bulbous central body from another well-established creature of classical fantasy, the ancient sea-monster (kētos), this by virtue of the fact that, whilst dragon and sea-monster had remained largely distinct creatures in classical culture, they had been confounded by the Septuagint. Its wings, however, and probably too in effect its two legs (the latter placed in the position of the sea-monster’s front flippers), it derived rather from demons and the Devil, the latter being associated with snakes already in the Old Testament, and then spectacularly so in the New Testament’s Revelation. By the ninth century AD these two developments had crystallized in the wyvern-type dragon.
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The Key
Apr 9, 2024 14:34:00 GMT -5
Post by Bownarrow on Apr 9, 2024 14:34:00 GMT -5
www.google.co.uk/search?q=Gasc+henri+poussin&client=safari&sca_esv=be2d3384baa617c2&channel=ipad_bm&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiAyZvV5LWFAxX9XUEAHeP9CPEQ_AUIBigB&biw=768&bih=922#imgrc=vLRbqrF9FddCtMwww.lesecretdepoussin.com/images/Gasc-article-PrColantuono.pdfA pair of fine Baroque paintings in the collection of Mme. Françoise Gasc represent the subjects of Jonah and the Sea Monster (fig. 1) and Christ Calming the Seas (fig. 2)academic.oup.com/book/41213/chapter-abstract/350678533?redirectedFrom=fulltextThe Dragon in the West: From Ancient Myth to Modern Legend Daniel OgdenHow did the classical dragon, essentially just a massive snake in form, a worm, evolve, in early Christian culture, into the very particular fantasy creature we know as a ‘dragon’ today in the West? It is argued that the dragon acquired its animalian head and more bulbous central body from another well-established creature of classical fantasy, the ancient sea-monster (kētos), this by virtue of the fact that, whilst dragon and sea-monster had remained largely distinct creatures in classical culture, they had been confounded by the Septuagint. Its wings, however, and probably too in effect its two legs (the latter placed in the position of the sea-monster’s front flippers), it derived rather from demons and the Devil, the latter being associated with snakes already in the Old Testament, and then spectacularly so in the New Testament’s Revelation. By the ninth century AD these two developments had crystallized in the wyvern-type dragon.Wikipedia - Tannin The tanninim (תַּנִּינִים) also appear in the Hebrew Bible's Book of Genesis,[5] Exodus,[6] Deuteronomy,[7]Psalms,[9] Job,[10] Ezekiel,[11] Isaiah,[12] and Jeremiah.[13] They are explicitly listed among the creatures created by God on the fifth day of the Genesis creation narrative,[5] translated in the King James Version as "great whales".[14] The tannin is listed in the apocalypse of Isaiah as among the sea beasts to be slain by Yahweh "on that day",[15] translated in the King James Version as "the dragon".[16][n 1]
In Judaism, Tannin is sometimes conflated with the related sea monsters Leviathanand Rahab by Christians.[19][clarification needed] Along with Rahab, "Tannin" was a name applied to ancient Egypt after the Exodus to Canaan.[2]
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