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Post by zaphod73491 on Jan 10, 2019 15:55:42 GMT -5
Alguém aqui tem alguma dica (sem dar demais) para a ordem das peças do quebra-cabeça? Eu tenho o primeiro passo completo, mas não sei o que fazer com essas 80 letras. Eu os coloquei em ordem (primeira parte do livro), e daí eu os coloquei em ordem numérica, mas isso me deu rabiscos. Eu tentei cifras diferentes (Vig e Caesar) e ainda não recebi nada. Existe uma palavra chave que temos que encontrar? Eu estou perdido. McB: at THOR you've listed one of the ways to order the letters. There are many others. I can think of at least 6 different ways that are all equally possible, and unfortunately no way to choose among them other than to try them all. |
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Post by grizzbait on Jan 10, 2019 15:56:43 GMT -5
Thanks Zap! A lot to do when I get home. Your help is appreciated as well!
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mcb
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by mcb on Jan 10, 2019 17:21:54 GMT -5
McB: at THOR you've listed one of the ways to order the letters. There are many others. I can think of at least 6 different ways that are all equally possible, and unfortunately no way to choose among them other than to try them all. I consider this the most obvious. |
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Post by zaphod73491 on Jan 10, 2019 17:29:44 GMT -5
McB: well, if you actually physically arranged the puzzle pieces as you have, and replaced each XXX-Y code
with its corresponding letter, the physical layout would look like this:
L_M_U_A
S_W_T_Z
V_X_I_U
L_C_I_A
C_L_T_U
L_J_H_Y
Q_M_K_W
etc.
So one could argue that the "most obvious" way to read the letters would be LMUASWTZVXIU ... After all,
the codes on the puzzle pieces are laid out in a column, not in a row.
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mcb
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by mcb on Jan 10, 2019 19:05:37 GMT -5
McB: well, if you actually physically arranged the puzzle pieces as you have, and replaced each XXX-Y code with its corresponding letter, the physical layout would look like this: L_M_U_A S_W_T_Z V_X_I_U L_C_I_A C_L_T_U L_J_H_Y Q_M_K_W etc. So one could argue that the "most obvious" way to read the letters would be LMUASWTZVXIU ... After all, the codes on the puzzle pieces are laid out in a column, not in a row. Ok...thx. ; ) |
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Post by ironwill on Jan 11, 2019 14:21:26 GMT -5
Here is where I'm at presently.... I took the grid layout of the puzzle keys and placed them in horizontal fashion as you guys did previously. Then I put them in vertical fashion as Zaph pointed out. With that I came up with 2 different strings of 80 characters... Horizontal Layout Ordered Into String: LSVLCMWXCLUTIITAZUAULQFRMJMYPJHKAVCYWBLBLICTXBXACUOZMIEULOKKHRBVGUSOKLSVRWYAYULFVertical Layout Ordered Into String:..... LMUASWTZVXIULCIACLTULJHYQMKWFYABRPVLMJCBLBOUIXZLCAMOTCIKXUEKHUSARSVYBORYVKWLGLYF
Next, I Transposed each of them into the 1-80 code (incase a Vigenere comes after the transposition). Might not even be a Vigenere involved but here they are... Horizontal Transposed Into Code String: LLRQFYAMKMHALYUFGBISPSLXLVLOCRMUZKLSUCJLMWKCTUXLZJRIIIHCAVEWTOYUCWOKABVUYBTVUBXAVertical Transposed Into Code String:.... LXVIFWLWBTHTLLKHRBLVFMLICUYMCYKICBARASYXQTKVUUZOOMUBCCAVRYIMIUWSOKYEAXPLGSUALJZL
Here is the Vigenere Decoder you can use to speed your attempts up. Just input the strings into the Ciphertext box and start trying keywords (results are on left side of screen)... www.dcode.fr/vigenere-cipherFor the non transposed string sets, when I put the key guesses in... I was looking for strings that had too many repeated non-usable letters such as too many x's or z's or q's as well as not enough vowels and high occurrence letters before I dismissed that present key guess. For anyone who is wondering I tried the following keys without success on all 4 strings: KEY WORD DECISION MYSTERIOUSWRITINGS FORRESTFENN SPECIALWORDS DISCOVER THRILLOFTHECHASE THETHRILLOFTHECHASE We could be completely wrong about this phase being a Vigenere, but it's all I know to try at the moment. |
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mcb
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by mcb on Jan 11, 2019 14:39:30 GMT -5
Here is where I'm at presently.... I took the grid layout of the puzzle keys and placed them in horizontal fashion as you guys did previously. Then I put them in vertical fashion as Zaph pointed out. With that I came up with 2 different strings of 80 characters... Horizontal Layout Ordered Into String: LSVLCMWXCLUTIITAZUAULQFRMJMYPJHKAVCYWBLBLICTXBXACUOZMIEULOKKHRBVGUSOKLSVRWYAYULFVertical Layout Ordered Into String:..... LMUASWTZVXIULCIACLTULJHYQMKWFYABRPVLMJCBLBOUIXZLCAMOTCIKXUEKHUSARSVYBORYVKWLGLYF
Next, I Transposed each of them into the 1-80 code (incase a Vigenere comes after the transposition). Might not even be a Vigenere involved but here they are... Horizontal Transposed Into Code String: LLRQFYAMKMHALYUFGBISPSLXLVLOCRMUZKLSUCJLMWKCTUXLZJRIIIHCAVEWTOYUCWOKABVUYBTVUBXAVertical Transposed Into Code String:.... LXVIFWLWBTHTLLKHRBLVFMLICUYMCYKICBARASYXQTKVUUZOOMUBCCAVRYIMIUWSOKYEAXPLGSUALJZL
Here is the Vigenere Decoder you can use to speed your attempts up. Just input the strings into the Ciphertext box and start trying keywords (results are on left side of screen)... www.dcode.fr/vigenere-cipherFor the non transposed string sets, when I put the key guesses in... I was looking for strings that had too many repeated non-usable letters such as too many x's or z's or q's as well as not enough vowels and high occurrence letters before I dismissed that present key guess. For anyone who is wondering I tried the following keys without success on all 4 strings: KEY WORD DECISION MYSTERIOUSWRITINGS FORRESTFENN SPECIALWORDS DISCOVER THRILLOFTHECHASE THETHRILLOFTHECHASE We could be completely wrong about this phase being a Vigenere, but it's all I know to try at the moment. 13 41 L L L L 22 10 S M M S 26 73 V U U V 35 22 L A A L 38 80 C L S C 08 28 M J W L 42 76 W H T Q 47 06 X Y Z F 56 32 C L V R 02 53 L B X M 32 61 U O I L 45 19 T U U I 19 01 I H L C 53 36 I U C T 61 56 T S I X 69 23 A A A H 33 65 Z S C R 72 40 U W L B 12 13 A T T V 46 67 U Z U G 23 29 L Q L M 04 02 Q M J W 16 21 F K H X 30 45 R W Y C 41 39 M I Q L 50 03 J X M J 31 79 M Z K M 06 51 Y L W Y 21 49 P R F P 39 24 J S Y J 55 27 H V A B 09 11 K Y B X 57 17 A V R A 71 69 V X P C 44 04 C I V U 14 71 Y U L U 60 50 W F M S 78 05 B Y J O 25 30 L A C K 18 57 B B B L 01 25 L C L U 52 07 I A B T 65 60 C M O I 75 35 T O U I 24 12 X B I T 70 20 B O X H 79 08 X R Z K 80 70 A U L A 29 52 C L C V 37 26 U C A C 28 62 O I M O 49 42 Z A O Z 10 14 M R T M 54 54 I P C I 59 31 E V I E 15 09 U L K S 40 33 L T X V 62 72 O C U R 68 55 K I E W 43 37 K K K Y 11 15 H V H A 51 58 R K U Z 74 75 B W S U 76 66 V L A A 17 43 G C R U 64 74 U L S Y 20 68 S T V W 67 59 O U Y B 34 16 K M B L 48 46 L J O B 36 34 S C R U 58 18 V B U L 03 77 R X V O 66 63 W U K K 63 44 Y E W K 07 64 A K L A 73 78 Y G G Y 77 38 U L L U 27 47 L Y Y L 05 48 F F F F |
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Post by zaphod73491 on Jan 11, 2019 14:45:20 GMT -5
Hi IronWill -- Vigenere is almost certainly involved since Jenny used it multiple times for puzzles within her book. Personally, I think the 80 scrambled numbers are the final decryption step since they are on the last page of the book, so I have been concentrating on performing Vigenere as step 3 and looking for results that resemble scrambled English.
Your first two strings are ones I searched extensively; neither worked out. There are at least four more variants for you to try (without involving the 80 scrambled numbers). Keep in mind that you aren't (necessarily) looking for words to drop out when crib-dragging various keywords or keyphrases across the 80 letters; you are looking for plentiful letters that are common in English (ETAOINSHRLDU) and a dearth of letters that aren't (JQXZ).
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mcb
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by mcb on Jan 11, 2019 16:57:51 GMT -5
Oi IronWill - Vigenere é quase certamente envolvido desde que Jenny usou várias vezes para quebra-cabeças dentro de seu livro. Pessoalmente, acho que os 80 números embaralhados são a etapa final de decriptografia, já que estão na última página do livro, então me concentrei em realizar o Vigenere como etapa 3 e procurar resultados que se parecessem com o inglês embaralhado. Suas duas primeiras seqüências de caracteres são aquelas que eu procurei extensivamente; nem funcionou. Há pelo menos mais quatro variantes para você tentar (sem envolver os 80 números embaralhados). Tenha em mente que você não está (necessariamente) procurando palavras para desistir ao arrastar várias palavras-chave ou frases-chave nas 80 letras; você está procurando por letras abundantes que são comuns em inglês (ETAOINSHRLDU) e uma escassez de letras que não são (JQXZ).
Have you discovered what the twenty keys of Parts 1 and 2 of the book mean? Do you think they can be relevant in the 80 letters?
I found the phrase "seektreasure" in them.
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Post by zaphod73491 on Jan 11, 2019 17:22:00 GMT -5
McB: both keys & dice, yes. Couldn't get either to work.
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Post by zaphod73491 on Jan 11, 2019 18:50:58 GMT -5
Oi IronWill - Vigenere é quase certamente envolvido desde que Jenny usou várias vezes para quebra-cabeças dentro de seu livro. Pessoalmente, acho que os 80 números embaralhados são a etapa final de decriptografia, já que estão na última página do livro, então me concentrei em realizar o Vigenere como etapa 3 e procurar resultados que se parecessem com o inglês embaralhado. Suas duas primeiras seqüências de caracteres são aquelas que eu procurei extensivamente; nem funcionou. Há pelo menos mais quatro variantes para você tentar (sem envolver os 80 números embaralhados). Tenha em mente que você não está (necessariamente) procurando palavras para desistir ao arrastar várias palavras-chave ou frases-chave nas 80 letras; você está procurando por letras abundantes que são comuns em inglês (ETAOINSHRLDU) e uma escassez de letras que não são (JQXZ).
Have you discovered what the twenty keys of Parts 1 and 2 of the book mean? Do you think they can be relevant in the 80 letters?
I found the phrase "seektreasure" in them.
Hi McB: was on my phone earlier so didn't have access to my computer notes. Yes: you correctly decrypted the key symbols. Well done! (I think this is one of the harder puzzles in the book, though the dice code is also difficult.) How are you doing this without the benefit of the book? I know Jenny says she was going to try to get you a copy, but no way would you have it already! |
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mcb
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by mcb on Jan 11, 2019 20:22:53 GMT -5
Zap,
Have you discovered what the twenty keys of Parts 1 and 2 of the book mean? Do you think they can be relevant in the 80 letters?
I found the phrase "seektreasure" in them.
Hi McB: was on my phone earlier so didn't have access to my computer notes. Yes: you correctly decrypted the key symbols. Well done! (I think this is one of the harder puzzles in the book, though the dice code is also difficult.) How are you doing this without the benefit of the book? I know Jenny says she was going to try to get you a copy, but no way would you have it already! A friend is sending me the puzzles, and I try to solve them. |
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Post by heidini on Jan 12, 2019 20:29:12 GMT -5
I commend you all in attempting to solve the coded words. I have no skill set for this. I wish you all the best!
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mcb
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by mcb on Jan 12, 2019 20:35:31 GMT -5
Zap,
Have you discovered what the twenty keys of Parts 1 and 2 of the book mean? Do you think they can be relevant in the 80 letters?
I found the phrase "seektreasure" in them.
Hi McB: was on my phone earlier so didn't have access to my computer notes. Yes: you correctly decrypted the key symbols. Well done! (I think this is one of the harder puzzles in the book, though the dice code is also difficult.) How are you doing this without the benefit of the book? I know Jenny says she was going to try to get you a copy, but no way would you have it already! Zap, I'll give you something to think about and I'd like you to try it too. Numbered the phrase "THRILLOFTHECHASE" - 16,15,14...1 Inverted. Same as 23-13 = WM. And it turned out to be something special too. Look! |
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Post by ironwill on Jan 13, 2019 0:29:38 GMT -5
I commend you all in attempting to solve the coded words. I have no skill set for this. I wish you all the best! Thank you but I'm at a loss at my present point. The possibilities of what to do with the character strings (WHICHEVER one it is) are endless. And I don't even know what I'm doing after the 4x4 grid order of the pieces. I mean the directions of travel from that point, in solving it, could be literally ANYTHING lol. Cryptogram, Vigenere, her recent RAIL FENCE cipher, and not to mention not even knowing how to order letters into a string or not. Oh well. Seems my skill set has found its glass ceiling. |
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