Stanza 1

[Deleted]

I was more impressed with your Dec. Millay reference.

[Deleted]

I am guilty of that myself. But upon reflection and over time, I have attempted to listen to Fenn. If most searchers are preoccupied with the blaze, according to Fenn, and I've noticed that most searchers are looking to assign random places on a map to words in the poem, then that must be attempting to find the blaze(trail). So, I must go back to the poem and the first clue.

It is my belief the first clue unlocks this whole thing. It is also my belief the first clue is referenced in Stanza 1.

[Deleted]

Forrest has said, many times, go back to the poem. Not go back to the book, or go back to the map. Go back to the poem. And solve the first clue. The poem, and the first clue.

[fundamentaldesign]

Dec 12, 2016 11:25:50 GMT -5 seannm said:

All,

 One thing I have also noticed about stanza one, that may help to substantiate the theory that stanza one may not contain information than what we already know is, Forrest starts the poem using a conjunction. He uses the word as, a conjunction, then a present perfect "have gone",  to mean since or because he has went or has gone alone in there.  What this does grammatically is to make the first two lines of the poem become a dependent clause, it is now dependent on further information to make a clear and complete sentence, thus the "I can Keep my secret where" which by itself is a independent clause, but then is followed by another independent clause "and hint of riches new and old" therefore completing the first sentence of the poem and quite possibly the first clue.

 Remember Since or because (as) he has gone alone, He CAN keep his secret where, and hint of riches new and old. If this is true and we believe it to be since Forrest has mentioned this truth several times, then the treasures must be an inanimate object, and because it is in the plural form it then must be a verb to mean things Forrest holds fond or dear. And since riches can only be a noun then riches should be in reference to things of monetary value so he can keep his secret where and hint "of" things of value both new and old.

Seannm

Your first paragraph above sounds like a complicated way to look at the first stanza. I don't understand what you are trying to say....that there is or isn't a clue or hint in the first stanza? I prefer just simple explanations of the first stanza instead of English lessons.

[fundamentaldesign]

Mar 23, 2017 10:19:17 GMT -5 seannm said:

Dec 12, 2016 11:25:50 GMT -5 seannm said:

All,

 One thing I have also noticed about stanza one, that may help to substantiate the theory that stanza one may not contain information than what we already know is, Forrest starts the poem using a conjunction. He uses the word as, a conjunction, then a present perfect "have gone",  to mean since or because he has went or has gone alone in there.  What this does grammatically is to make the first two lines of the poem become a dependent clause, it is now dependent on further information to make a clear and complete sentence, thus the "I can Keep my secret where" which by itself is a independent clause, but then is followed by another independent clause "and hint of riches new and old" therefore completing the first sentence of the poem and quite possibly the first clue.

 Remember Since or because (as) he has gone alone, He CAN keep his secret where, and hint of riches new and old. If this is true and we believe it to be since Forrest has mentioned this truth several times, then the treasures must be an inanimate object, and because it is in the plural form it then must be a verb to mean things Forrest holds fond or dear. And since riches can only be a noun then riches should be in reference to things of monetary value so he can keep his secret where and hint "of" things of value both new and old.

Seannm

All,

 Let us compare what was said above to the recent Q & A from Forrest:

Jenny,

Thanks for misspelling knowledge for me. I am sure the treasure chest relishes her guardianship of the rich objects that are concealed in her care, and over which she stands sentinel. They are still in hibernation, but will soon waken as the spring warmth gestures for the Long Tailed Ermine to start turning back into weasels, and the bears start peeking out. I think the gold will again become alert to the tromp and vibrations of hiking boots. Are they hopefully anticipating? I don’t know. f

 Lets look specifically at the following line:

I am sure the treasure chest relishes her guardianship of the rich objects that are concealed in her care, and over which she stands sentinel.

 rich objects in her care, and over which she stands sentinel.

So rich objects, could be inferred to mean riches new and old, that are in her care: i.e the gold in in it's raw and transformed form. (see above quoted)

But what are the rich objects over which she stands sentinel? Could they be those things we too would see if we were standing where the treasure chest is?  Quite possibly the treasures mentioned in stanza one? (see above quote)

So, if this hypothesis is true, then what are we then to infer about stanza one? In my opinion, there is no information contained there within that gets a searcher closer to the treasure chest.

Seannm

I'd like you to be more specific about stanza one when you mention, in your opinion, that there is no information contained there that gets a searcher closer to the tc.

This 'information' you speak of...is it a hint or clue? We all know a hint doesn't get one closer to the tc, hints help with the clues. Sounds like a hint in the first stanza would help unlock the first clue in the second stanza if that's where one feels the first clue is (WWWH). It does say hint in the first stanza and it does say begin it in the second stanza. Simple logic.

In other words, a piece of information in stanza one isn't a clue if it helps pinpoint a geographical spot that is further away from the tc then the geographical point of the possible first clue-WWWH. But it's vital.

[Deleted]

Amen brother

[fundamentaldesign]

I even added one thought to my previous comment. Now it's blissful! Lol

[Deleted]

As I have gone alone in there
An with my treasures bold (what does Forrest treasure more than his family?)nothing

So where did he go alone and with his family also
The answer is in TTOTC

I can keep my secret where (this is why he went there)

And hint of riches new and old(the chest contents)

amdo GG

[fundamentaldesign]

Mar 30, 2017 10:55:53 GMT -5 seannm said:

Mar 30, 2017 8:01:49 GMT -5 fundamentaldesign said:

Your first paragraph above sounds like a complicated way to look at the first stanza. I don't understand what you are trying to say....that there is or isn't a clue or hint in the first stanza? I prefer just simple explanations of the first stanza instead of English lessons.

Fundy,

  Forrest spent 15+ years constructing this poem, and one cannot simply deconstruct it by basic google searches of key words contained within it. And IMO, some, if not most, make naive assumptions about key words in the poem and then construct their entire solve based on these, but without a clear understanding of their context they are bound to fail, again and again.

There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f

Seannm

I still don't understand your original post and if you were thinking that it contains hints or not, since you didn't answer that.

And not talking about key words...more like the opposite of key words. You may have a situation where you don't have a clear understanding of the context of stanza one as it may provide the proper big picture.

[fundamentaldesign]

Mar 30, 2017 11:24:05 GMT -5 seannm said:

Mar 30, 2017 8:08:24 GMT -5 fundamentaldesign said:

I'd like you to be more specific about stanza one when you mention, in your opinion, that there is no information contained there that gets a searcher closer to the tc.

This 'information' you speak of...is it a hint or clue? We all know a hint doesn't get one closer to the tc, hints help with the clues. Sounds like a hint in the first stanza would help unlock the first clue in the second stanza if that's where one feels the first clue is (WWWH). It does say hint in the first stanza and it does say begin it in the second stanza. Simple logic.

In other words, a piece of information in stanza one isn't a clue if it helps pinpoint a geographical spot that is further away from the tc then the geographical point of the possible first clue-WWWH. But it's vital.

Fundy,

 There are many, if not most, who believe that the first stanza points to a geographical location that warm waters halt resides within, and who am I to argue this because it isn't proven wrong or right, yet.  But in my interpretation of this stanza, there is no indication to a geographical location where we can then begin.  Now that is not to say that the information contained within is not of importance or is not a clue, but for me it does not get one closer to the treasure.

Seannm

So, are you saying you thought about stanza 1 possibly having a hint before? Or you think a hint gets us closer to the tc? You see, a lot of my post you quoted was used to explain what a hint can be used for and it's got nothing to do with getting one closer to the treasure "than the starting point of clue 1". Since you haven't worded it that way, I don't know if you understand the specifics of that. You just mention "but for me it does not get one closer to the treasure"...and not mention closer from where.

I don't think it's hard to come up with a specific geographical spot in the Rockies by deducing something from the first stanza.

[fundamentaldesign]

Mar 30, 2017 12:22:16 GMT -5 seannm said:

Mar 30, 2017 12:03:24 GMT -5 fundamentaldesign said:

So, are you saying you thought about stanza 1 possibly having a hint before? Or you think a hint gets us closer to the tc? You see, a lot of my post you quoted was used to explain what a hint can be used for and it's got nothing to do with getting one closer to the treasure "than the starting point of clue 1". Since you haven't worded it that way, I don't know if you understand the specifics of that. You just mention "but for me it does not get one closer to the treasure"...and not mention closer from where.

I don't think it's hard to come up with a specific geographical spot in the Rockies by deducing something from the first stanza.

Fundy,

 Let's try another path, what is your interpretation of the 8th sentence in the poem?

Seannm

Nope, not gonna go there. I'm gonna stick with the topic we are discussing here which is the first stanza and the points you and I are discussing about it. Not sure why you won't stick with those topics and instead post out of context quotes, want us to head to another stanza or can't answer a simple question about how hints can possibly be utilized in this. You may have a reason why which I won't assume. But this thread is "Stanza 1" and I think it's where one can say "therein lies the puzzle".

[Deleted]

Comfortable doesn't exclude temperature though.

It is my opinion the first clue is the starting point, the geographical area where we then proceed to Begin it.

If you don't know where you're going, any path will take you there.

[fundamentaldesign]

Mar 30, 2017 14:41:55 GMT -5 seannm said:

Mar 30, 2017 8:01:49 GMT -5 fundamentaldesign said:

Your first paragraph above sounds like a complicated way to look at the first stanza. I don't understand what you are trying to say....that there is or isn't a clue or hint in the first stanza? I prefer just simple explanations of the first stanza instead of English lessons.<------------Fundy, That is your hangup right there, fix that!  The answers are just not that SIMPLE.

Fundy,

 That is the problem, everyone is looking for short cuts, the simple answers, and while the poem is straightforward with no tricks or subterfuge, it is difficult to decode, but your effort will be worth the cold. People see words like treasures or phrases like riches new and old and then run off outside of the box trying to find things that confirm them as indicators to a geographical location (the upside-down cover of TTOTC is the most hilarious example) and ignore the context in which those said words are used, and that my friends is expensive folly.

A great example of this is the word warm, everyone for 6 years or more was, and still are, fixated on temperature and have ignored the context in which it is used, and then low and behold Forrest comes out and says warm means comfortable to him, hmmm sure doesn't sound like a temperature to me, but others can disagree and continue to have nice vacations.

I will offer you no further advise than this; get over your hangups and read the poem.

Seannm

Where did you specifically mention hints and how they might be utilized in the first stanza?...and I don't mean the word 'information'. Where did you answer my question about your idea that nothing in stanza 1 gets one closer to the tc? Remember the part that I suggested a hint in stanza 1 can lead one closer to the tc if it's still further away from the tc than the first clue. You're right I missed that...

[fundamentaldesign]

Mar 30, 2017 14:41:55 GMT -5 seannm said:

Mar 30, 2017 8:01:49 GMT -5 fundamentaldesign said:

Your first paragraph above sounds like a complicated way to look at the first stanza. I don't understand what you are trying to say....that there is or isn't a clue or hint in the first stanza? I prefer just simple explanations of the first stanza instead of English lessons.<------------Fundy, That is your hangup right there, fix that!  The answers are just not that SIMPLE.

Fundy,

 That is the problem, everyone is looking for short cuts, the simple answers, and while the poem is straightforward with no tricks or subterfuge, it is difficult to decode, but your effort will be worth the cold. People see words like treasures or phrases like riches new and old and then run off outside of the box trying to find things that confirm them as indicators to a geographical location (the upside-down cover of TTOTC is the most hilarious example) and ignore the context in which those said words are used, and that my friends is expensive folly.

A great example of this is the word warm, everyone for 6 years or more was, and still are, fixated on temperature and have ignored the context in which it is used, and then low and behold Forrest comes out and says warm means comfortable to him, hmmm sure doesn't sound like a temperature to me, but others can disagree and continue to have nice vacations.

I will offer you no further advise than this; get over your hangups and read the poem.

Seannm

So, I'm the one with hang ups when I'm the one that says I don't think it's too hard to get a specific geographical location from deducing something from stanza 1?...and you bring up things like the upside-down cover of TTOTC and the word 'warm' as examples, which aren't in the first stanza! I don't get any of your logic. Then, you love bringing up after the fact statements by f to supposedly back your position that aren't in the poem, yet you think I need to go back and read the poem...you're striking out and you want me to come be part of another blog that supposedly has all kinds of intelligent dialog when this is an example of what I can expect. No thanks!

[fundamentaldesign]

Seannm,

I like how you come across like you've explained yourself well. I bet no one else can figure out your responses either since they deflect woefully. And please spare us your trying to teach us to fish speech...ugh!

Don't let slip the fact that you obviously can't add any value to our stanza 1 thread here because you can't find any information in it that gets one closer to the tc.

I was right on the history point that you also had trouble getting a grasp on. That's on this blog. What can I say...you keep getting beat by simple logic.

And your tone detector is way off, hilarious!