Stanza 1

[Deleted]

Good summary Sean. Personally I think the first stanza is a riddle and the solution is an inatimate object that is telling us where it is still alone today (it gone and did not return). That said you bring up a good point that:

Based on your correct description of the conjunction useage without a comma, and dependednt vs independent clauses, I assume you would alos agree that:

"Begin it where warm waters halt and take it in the canyon down, not far, but too far to walk"

Is telling us that the "warm waters" are doing two things, "halt and take". So this sentence is not telling anyone to go in the canyon down, only the water. We are to "Put it below the home of Brown". That has always been my feeling too, and in part most of the blogs use WWWH when that is not what you are looking for, you need to include the "take it in..." part too such as WWWHATIITCD.

[Deleted]

I do too, and I agree It is not a mistake, it cannot be a coincidence IMO

[fundamentaldesign]

seannm...how can anyone solve the poem or your stanza 1 challenge if we can't use any outside references? Are you saying f not only wrote the 9 clues in the poem somewhere but also wrote the answers to all the 9 clues in the poem somewhere? I just don't understand why some handcuff themselves like this.

[fundamentaldesign]

Seannm, good stuff. It's easy to see that you are taking the time to think about wwwh and how to find the correct one from your great write up. I don't think we're really too far off in our thinking. Of course searchers is gonna have little different perspectives on things. Don't mind me, I can be very direct sometimes. One thing I don't do so much is live in the after statements by f. Yes, one needs to take them into consideration but I don't over do it. It's all about the poem and a couple of hints from TTOTC for me.

[Deleted]

Sean,

Good way to put it! If it does require any geography knowledge or TTOTC, IMO it will not be required until they know a word that is key, have extracted all 9 clues (but not solved them yet), and seen both omegas (that form the blaze). At that point you will have the clue words that need to be mapped in the order they were extracted from the poem to the real world. That is when the TTOTC and some geometry (and GE/A map) will help.

IMO if someone is using a map before doing those steps, they will be looking forver and never find _the_ place where all the clues come together. If it really works like it seems to, it is one of the most cool riddles and puzzles I ever seen. Usually such a thing requires the use of anagrams or ciphers to modify the poem, Forrest figured out a way to do it that not only is modifying the poem discouraged (do not mess with my poem), but doing so makes it impossible to solve!

Very clever! It is also kind of funny in an evil way because everyone either still is, or has went through the cycle of trying to locate all the places on the face of the poem (such as hoB, canyon, meek) when they cannot be found due to the sheer number of possibilites. Simply put, at face value the poem sends you on an exciting family adventure rafting down a cayon looking for a blaze, which was his goal. Meanwhile, if you forget about the real world and focus on the poem, it sends you to a place where none of that exists at all in reality, and the chest awaits far from any such place (but is still family friendly).

The only question that remains for me is will the chest be there, or will I find a bronze bell that contains the information needed to use "title to the gold" at an area perhaps 700 miles south in NM No way to tell without figuring out how to extract the clues, solve the clues, and get the chest. If correct, it is very clear why nobody (according to Forrest) has gotten past 2 clues BUT a few were within 200 feet of the chest and not knowing the significane. The funny thing is even if he told the 200 foot searchers who they are, they still would not understand where it is because it is not near what they are reading (hoB, etc).

I sure hope it is found next year (by anyone), this year only one man could get it right now and he is at home with Peggy.

[fundamentaldesign]

There's no way to solve the clues in the poem without using some type of history as the chest was secreted and the poem written before The Thrill of The Chase was introduced to us. Simple logic tells us that the clues were written in the past as determined by the release date of The Thrill of The Chase. Any correct answers to clues that are geographical in nature are also from/involve the past. So I'm not buying that we can't use historical in nature problem solving to unlock the clues.

Edit to add one word.

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2016 1:06:58 GMT -5 fundamentaldesign said:

There's no way to solve the clues in the poem without using some type of history as the chest was secreted and the poem written before The Thrill of The Chase was introduced to us. Simple logic tells us that the clues were written in the past as determined by the release date of The Thrill of The Chase. Any correct answers to clues that are geographical in nature are also from the past. So I'm not buying that we can't use historical in nature problem solving to unlock the clues.

Correct, but they need to get the clues before they can be solved, and the clues seem to be hidden from plain view.

[fundamentaldesign]

Dec 10, 2016 7:43:34 GMT -5 @wymustigo said:

Dec 10, 2016 1:06:58 GMT -5 fundamentaldesign said:

There's no way to solve the clues in the poem without using some type of history as the chest was secreted and the poem written before The Thrill of The Chase was introduced to us. Simple logic tells us that the clues were written in the past as determined by the release date of The Thrill of The Chase. Any correct answers to clues that are geographical in nature are also from the past. So I'm not buying that we can't use historical in nature problem solving to unlock the clues.

Correct, but they need to get the clues before they can be solved, and the clues seem to be hidden from plain view.

Yep, wymustigo. I do think f has helped us find a few of the clues by him telling us one or two of them are a clue. I don't have the exact quotes for this as they are in disarray as screen shots on my phone but a few searchers have picked up on f's words to this effect. I'm pretty sure f has said (paraphrasing) that the blaze is a clue. I think he said wwwh is a clue also.

[Deleted]

I agree, but I think they need to be solved first. I know that doesn't seem to make sense, but let me try it this way.

Suppose you and I were friends and grew up in a small town. Lets say we had a local lake that we fished, and say it was known as "Mystic Lake" (it doesn't matter), but you and I called it "Eagles Lake" like the locals did. Now we write a poem and we use "Eagles Lake" as one of the clues. There is no such place as "Eagles Lake", but people will be looking at all the lakes which have Eagles near them. What they really need to do is solve Eagles Lake using the poem so that it exposes the real meaning (Mystic Lake).

I think FF did something similar, he has thousands out looking for WWWH's near a canyon, but neither of those places are unique. If the poem is used to solve the real meaning of WWWH, it may be a location without any water at all.

On its surface it seems easy: Find WWWH and goes down a canyon, find a hoB and put in, move to a place not for the meeek or where heavy loads and water high exist. He did that on purpose to hide the real clues and allow for people to have a cool water adventure IMO. The poem is much more complicated than that because you need the real clues in order to figure out what WWWH/Canyon/Meek/etc really mean.

IMO he used the definition of Omega that means end, or more specifically "end of series". The poem is a series of instructions needed to extract the clues, then once extraced you execute the series of instructions on the solved clues you extracted, and that ends the second series, so now you have the double Omega (colophon). The blaze appears after performing these operations in the from of a crossed Omega directly in the middle overlapping the treasure.

I think that its impossible to retrieve the chest due to the snow right now unless you know the exact location to look, and right now only Forrest knows that. So I have the rest of the Winter to mess around with a possible solution. I have a feeling that someone (might not be me, I do not claim to have anything complete) will have it next year for sure. There is at least one person who knows just about everything I know, I had done previous research and abandoned it because I did not find a connection. This person told me what I needed to make the connection, but they are not exactly correct, there was much more to do and also changes to be made to their theory, but I have no doubt they will figure it out over the next few months. Hopefully we can get a deal to team up, we agree to 50/50 but I need a signed document to protect us both, so who knows if that will happen or not.

I will say this, never throw away old research that you could not get to work!

[The Wolf]

Dec 9, 2016 23:44:12 GMT -5 fundamentaldesign said:

One thing I don't do so much is live in the after statements by f. Yes, one needs to take them into consideration but I don't over do it.  

FD, This is a very good point and I will back it up with one of his "after statements:" "look at the big picture"
IMO, too many seekers take FF quotes individually, ignore others that conflict with another, look at it from only one angle (usually the angle intended by the treasure hunt designer). 

We need to look all of those FF quotes collectively or big picture. If something conflicts with another, there is a reason, and it is unlikely FF's mistake. It is my belief everything he says is by design, if something conflicts it means to look at it from another angle. Too many tangents and not enough focus on points of intercept. 

I believe, Mr. Fenn refers to this as target fixation. 

[fundamentaldesign]

Dec 10, 2016 9:34:19 GMT -5 seannm said:

Dec 10, 2016 1:06:58 GMT -5 fundamentaldesign said:

There's no way to solve the clues in the poem without using some type of history as the chest was secreted and the poem written before The Thrill of The Chase was introduced to us. Simple logic tells us that the clues were written in the past as determined by the release date of The Thrill of The Chase. Any correct answers to clues that are geographical in nature are also from/involve the past. So I'm not buying that we can't use historical in nature problem solving to unlock the clues.

Edit to add one word.

Fundy,

 Haha this is so funny, not funny because you are making me laugh, but funny in the since that the book is over six years old so it is in fact historical, see what I mean. So I guess I must concede to that effect. : )

Seannm

Lol, and looking at the big picture if the tc isn't found for 100-200 years from now everything will be quite historical.

[fundamentaldesign]

Dec 10, 2016 11:22:06 GMT -5 @rolltide said:

Geography is not static, it is about change. Geography answers three questions: Where? Why there? and Why do we care?

RollTide built his house on that hill over there. Why did he do that? Because history shows that is the best place to build a house in this area. Why do we care? Because the surrounding real-estate is in a flood zone and has been wiped out several times in the past.

Geography is the study of the earth and it's people. You cannot study the earth without knowing some history. You cannot study the people of the earth without knowing something about their history.

What I did yesterday is now history.

Why did I choose my current location to search for f's treasure? I employed a comprehensive knowledge of geography, and History inclines me to believe it to be viable application.

Excellent write up, rolltide.

[Deleted]

There might also be a geological (and historical) reason why specific warm waters halt.

[mtskipper]

"Safe upon the solid rock the ugly houses stand. (hoB and the first ending) Come and see my shinning palace built upon the sand." -Millay (second ending) There is probably a lot of sand in NM. This makes sense to me. You need to solve the first ending out in the mountains and once you find the container there will be additional clues to go to NM, somewhere close to FF's home or business where he can keep an eye on the TC and see when somebody finds it.

[Deleted]

It doesn't take much imagination to see what is going on around here, I leave you with this thought be careful what you ask for.