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Post by goldilocks on Jun 9, 2020 10:17:58 GMT -5
Why is everyone outing their solutions? Shouldn't you wait for the all clear, a solid visual or evidence of some kind? I know Forrest's word should be enough but somehow in the back of my mind I am reminded that this is a mystery that has gone on for years - it wouldn't feel right if it didn't end with some sort of twist...that's what my fantastical mind is hoping for anyway - a plot twist! What if the finder announces he has left the treasure in it's place for the next finder...maybe the thrill was enough for him and he wasn't interested in the chest. You just never know... You can see my solution in a post nearby... and honestly, I care more now about closure than personally finding it. I also believe I am correct... there are just too many pointers to that spot and that blaze. Dozens. And it makes logical sense too. Part of me wants to believe that FF realizes that the chest cannot be retrieved now or in the near future, so he wanted to 'out' the solutions. If I am correct it would be very difficult at the moment... since late March... to retrieve the chest. And so perhaps he is saying that the 'chest is found' but that could mean it was not retrieved. One can hope. In any event... it feels 'over' regardless. I agree it feels over and it most probably is, but I am a tiny bit hesitant to call it a day. Considering all of the decisions the finder has in front of him, I imagine he has a lot to think about however prepared he was for that day of discovery. We don't know who it is or what he has planned and ultimately it isn't up to Forrest how he goes about ending this final chapter. What if it was a test from Forrest - testing searchers to see who could disregard news and hype of this magnitude. That would be insane, but we just don't know... |
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Post by nkown on Jun 9, 2020 10:26:45 GMT -5
Yes... or to get everyone to work together to find a solve. Seems like the time for that. Masquerade ended oddly... and if I'm right about the location then when he passes it will become obvious as a spot. A few items I forgot to mention: JBB Enteprises (Joe Billy Bob, JBB for short): www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMPHGE_United_States_Air_Force_Academy_Colorado_Springs_CO President Kennedy's speech at the USAFA was recorded by JBB Enterprises. He spoke at Falcon stadium (lots of mentions of Falcons by FF). www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMP4B3_Air_Force_Academy_Cemetery_Carillon"Esmerelda" is a car mentioned in the SB's... obviously she was friendly with a certain keeper of a bell tower. The SB numbering system when plotted for all non integer SB's is the big dipper... this cannot be coincidence. The big dipper is Ursa Major.... FF pictured himself with a big bear in the cryptic SB with the 'headstone'. The little dipper is the small bear, ursa minor. If you look up the picture of the small bear in the SB's you'll see the SB number is the same as the spin rate of that anchor star. Both are NOT constellations though... they are asterisms. And there is a key asterisk in the beginning of TTOTC. This is all from memory... I have a lot more tying this place to FF's clues. |
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Jun 9, 2020 14:56:51 GMT -5
N and Goldi, I thought many of the SBs were little puzzles. I admit that a lot can be conjured in the imagination. I really enjoy SB107 that N talks about above as it seems to be a pretty intricate puzzle.
Also consider SB29. It presents a short paragraph about a woman from Colorado Springs who bought some dog food. The pictured dog food is "Iams" brand to the left and "Hi-Tor" to the right. Given the Colorado Springs pointer, these are seen to be a phonetic reference to the Air Force marketing motto, "aim" from "Iams" and "high" or "higher" from "Hi-Tor." Remember that the United States Air Force Academy is in Colorado Springs.
In the comments, the almost certain Fenn persona/collaborator "Goofy_old_guy" tells us: "Where warm waters halt: Colorado Springs.". This isn't the first or only time that a probable Fenn/collaborator just outright gives something away using an alias.
I believe Zaphod made a comment that Dal picked these pictures. If so, this would give more weight to my suspicion that Dal is collaborating with Fenn in this game.
SB154 is another little possible pointer to Colorado Springs via the Garden of the Gods park located there. It's a short email (supposedly) sent to Fenn with a link to a video called "Garden of the Gods." The video depicts a family outing to Garden of the Gods in southern Illinois. The scrapbook is odd in subject as it does not pertain to anything in the game, down to even the geographic location. Additionally, Dal makes a comment that confuses the location with Garden of the Gods in Colorado Springs (remember I think he's a game insider). The purpose of the scrapbook is most likely to point to the Colorado Springs region through the non sequitur of a family's trip to a different "Garden of the Gods."
I could never find the exact reason why Fenn bought property in Colorado Springs in 1965 but given that it was just north of Cheyenne Mountain Complex being built at the time I assume it had something to do with that facility (or Peterson AFB, or less likely the USAFA, although that's a longer commute). I never could find the exact address through the County Assessor's Office, the old city directories, or even the seller (a developer at the time) who I tracked down in his retirement in Oklahoma (nice guy who couldn't find anything in his records). Remember that the SB180 golf tournament that N references in his recent posts took place at the USAFA in 1966, at a time that Fenn presumably still owned this property (although I could never locate when he sold it).
Such a sprawling mess of fantasy. Maddening, but fun in measured doses.
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Post by goldilocks on Jun 9, 2020 15:16:04 GMT -5
N and Goldi, I thought many of the SBs were little puzzles. I admit that a lot can be conjured in the imagination. I really enjoy SB107 that N talks about above as it seems to be a pretty intricate puzzle. Also consider SB29. It presents a short paragraph about a woman from Colorado Springs who bought some dog food. The pictured dog food is "Iams" brand to the left and "Hi-Tor" to the right. Given the Colorado Springs pointer, these are seen to be a phonetic reference to the Air Force marketing motto, "aim" from "Iams" and "high" or "higher" from "Hi-Tor." Remember that the United States Air Force Academy is in Colorado Springs. In the comments, the almost certain Fenn persona/collaborator "Goofy_old_guy" tells us: "Where warm waters halt: Colorado Springs.". This isn't the first or only time that a probable Fenn/collaborator just outright gives something away using an alias. I believe Zaphod made a comment that Dal picked these pictures. If so, this would give more weight to my suspicion that Dal is collaborating with Fenn in this game. SB154 is another little possible pointer to Colorado Springs via the Garden of the Gods park located there. It's a short email (supposedly) sent to Fenn with a link to a video called "Garden of the Gods." The video depicts a family outing to Garden of the Gods in southern Illinois. The scrapbook is odd in subject as it does not pertain to anything in the game, down to even the geographic location. Additionally, Dal makes a comment that confuses the location with Garden of the Gods in Colorado Springs (remember I think he's a game insider). The purpose of the scrapbook is most likely to point to the Colorado Springs region through the non sequitur of a family's trip to a different "Garden of the Gods." I could never find the exact reason why Fenn bought property in Colorado Springs in 1965 but given that it was just north of Cheyenne Mountain Complex being built at the time I assume it had something to do with that facility (or Peterson AFB, or less likely the USAFA, although that's a longer commute). I never could find the exact address through the County Assessor's Office, the old city directories, or even the seller (a developer at the time) who I tracked down in his retirement in Oklahoma (nice guy who couldn't find anything in his records). Remember that the SB180 golf tournament that N references in his recent posts took place at the USAFA in 1966, at a time that Fenn presumably still owned this property (although I could never locate when he sold it). Such a sprawling mess of fantasy. Maddening, but fun in measured doses. Hi Jeff. How've you been? I miss reading your posts. I have to say I agree that Dal may be/have been in on this all along (saying this in a whisper...I wouldn't be surprised if Jenny was too based on how she's great at leading and encouraging a thought based discussion). Didn't Forrest purchase property for his daughter or grand-daughter when she was in college? Lots of schools in Colorado Springs area - I know because I looked at several with my son a few years ago and visited the Garden of the Gods on our way to Colorado College. |
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Post by nkown on Jun 9, 2020 15:39:19 GMT -5
FF also makes mention (with the picture of a bit of bronze figure and a chain) that he thought he would get an honorary degree from a small college in Colorado, but he didn't.
Reference after reference can be linked back to that area and specifically to the USAFA grounds, street names, traditions, slogans.... perhaps none more than the fact that he recited the poem that every USAFA cadet must learn prior to arriving on campus.
I've documented 38 direct 'name' references or links back to the USAFA that are unambiguous at least in name or direct connection (Glenna statue, Verdin company, We will Remember Them, Doolittle, JBB, etc)... and another dozen or so that are small puzzles that 'solve' to that area or a name associated with the place (like the Sneed Demeret match at the USAFA golf course).
I'd be willing to wager a very large sum that either the chest was found on the property or just off the property of the USAFA. Too many ties to be a data fit. These are not metaphors or big hoops to jump through.
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Post by firesnake on Jun 9, 2020 15:42:11 GMT -5
In the flurry of everything that’s going on I read through Dal’s again and realised I missed SB 253. I read it and was right back in that searcher mindset for a while, primed for that final shot across the bow. But right now is a different time - time for the kids, time for a cold beer and time for positivity. Let’s hope everything is sorted out however long it takes.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Jun 9, 2020 16:19:45 GMT -5
N, I especially like how you tied the general shape of the doodle of the drunkard in SB180 to the general street layout of the USAFA cemetery. Was the hiccup a peal of the carillion? Maybe so!
Goldi, I've missed your contributions as well. I stepped away from the game a half a year ago as I needed to redirect my time elsewhere--stepped away until I got an email from N a few days ago with the news.
The Colorado Springs deed transfer I'm referring to was in 1965 which is a wrong timeframe for his daughter's college unless he was planning for something very far in advance. I did read comments about property for his daughter's college but never found any primary sources (didn't spend much time on it either).
I have no informed opinion on Jenny's involvement in the game, in contrast to my informed suspicion of Dal's likely collaboration.
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Post by nkown on Jun 9, 2020 16:32:38 GMT -5
The comments made by Dal include references to the original author of We Will Remember Them, Esmerelda, the Verdin company -- all of which tie to the Carillon.
If you google Carillon + Forrest Fenn you get but a *single* reference long ago at Chase Chat which references Kansas Basketball and seems *crazy*... until you realize that the all time king of Kansas coached at? The United States Airforce Academy... Dean Smith. And that post references three other spots at the USAFA by name. Wild huh?
When I emailed Dal that his comments referred to these places he just said -- find them in the poem. He didn't deny it... just find them in the poem. I was never quite able to do that.
I have a ton of screenshots of all of this and when taken together and mapped over the USAFA map... well, it's very compelling. But posting pictures on this forum is pretty lousy.
Depending on what happens in the next week or two I may write this all up in a Medium post and let the world see it. If I'm wrong, great. If it's partly right, also great. If they don't publish a solve... then I'm really left to wonder if they just called off the whole thing b/c the TC is not accessible.
Given what I know about my emails I strongly believe that there is a chance that this is not quite as over as it would seem.
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Post by ironwill on Jun 10, 2020 3:40:17 GMT -5
I'll be completely honest with all you guys and gals. I hope with all my soul, that my solution that I posted here is no where near the location where the chest was. I would beat myself up for years if I was even 100 or 200 yards away from it, let alone at the right spot. I sure hope it was somewhere I had no clue of. That way I can get over this a lot faster. I'm sure a lot of you might feel the same way.
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Post by sangre on Jun 10, 2020 7:52:38 GMT -5
Why is everyone outing their solutions? Shouldn't you wait for the all clear, a solid visual or evidence of some kind? I know Forrest's word should be enough but somehow in the back of my mind I am reminded that this is a mystery that has gone on for years - it wouldn't feel right if it didn't end with some sort of twist...that's what my fantastical mind is hoping for anyway - a plot twist! What if the finder announces he has left the treasure in it's place for the next finder...maybe the thrill was enough for him and he wasn't interested in the chest. You just never know... I completely agree with you Goldi. There’s no coincidence that the announcement was made on 6-6. F-F OR D day. |
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Post by theoretical on Jun 10, 2020 12:50:12 GMT -5
Why is everyone outing their solutions? Shouldn't you wait for the all clear, a solid visual or evidence of some kind? I know Forrest's word should be enough but somehow in the back of my mind I am reminded that this is a mystery that has gone on for years - it wouldn't feel right if it didn't end with some sort of twist...that's what my fantastical mind is hoping for anyway - a plot twist! What if the finder announces he has left the treasure in it's place for the next finder...maybe the thrill was enough for him and he wasn't interested in the chest. You just never know... Goldi, you may be correct on the chase continuing in some form. My thoughts on why it’s good to post solves are as follows: 1) If the chase is truly over it really doesn’t matter, so why not post. 2) I personally enjoy reading all the solves. In some strange way, it seems to provide some completeness to the chase as we wait to hear if we will ever know the correct solve. And it’s fun to see some very creative solves even if they weren’t correct. 3) If the chase is not truly over as some are speculating, then the only harm would be that someone might “steal” your solve. But if you have a solve and didn’t find the treasure, then you don’t have a complete solve anyway. 4) The best reason to post, if the chase continues, is that your solve might trigger interest in another searcher who would want to collaborate with the poster to complete the solve. That’s a win win. I think most searchers are good people and would want to collaborate with the poster rather than simply steal the idea. It would truly be a greedy person who would want to find the treasure based only on another’s idea. Yes, I know that kind of searcher is out there. |
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Post by ironwill on Jun 10, 2020 21:02:48 GMT -5
Why is everyone outing their solutions? Shouldn't you wait for the all clear, a solid visual or evidence of some kind? I know Forrest's word should be enough but somehow in the back of my mind I am reminded that this is a mystery that has gone on for years - it wouldn't feel right if it didn't end with some sort of twist...that's what my fantastical mind is hoping for anyway - a plot twist! What if the finder announces he has left the treasure in it's place for the next finder...maybe the thrill was enough for him and he wasn't interested in the chest. You just never know... I'll be perfectly honest. If Forrest says its over... its over. This means only one thing now... protecting the integrity of your solution. If for any reason on earth, you thought that your solution and your spot was where the treasure was retrieved, then you should post it! This ensures that once the spot is revealed (which I fully believe it will be), that NO ONE can tell you "YEAH RIGHT! Sure that was your spot." Why? Because you posted it here, before the actual spot was revealed. At the very least it would give you some personal vindication. I say "at the very least" because a big part of what it will give you if you were close, is night after night of regret and depression...knowing you were that close. |
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Post by goldilocks on Jun 11, 2020 8:52:01 GMT -5
Why is everyone outing their solutions? Shouldn't you wait for the all clear, a solid visual or evidence of some kind? I know Forrest's word should be enough but somehow in the back of my mind I am reminded that this is a mystery that has gone on for years - it wouldn't feel right if it didn't end with some sort of twist...that's what my fantastical mind is hoping for anyway - a plot twist! What if the finder announces he has left the treasure in it's place for the next finder...maybe the thrill was enough for him and he wasn't interested in the chest. You just never know... I'll be perfectly honest. If Forrest says its over... its over. This means only one thing now... protecting the integrity of your solution. If for any reason on earth, you thought that your solution and your spot was where the treasure was retrieved, then you should post it! This ensures that once the spot is revealed (which I fully believe it will be), that NO ONE can tell you "YEAH RIGHT! Sure that was your spot." Why? Because you posted it here, before the actual spot was revealed. At the very least it would give you some personal vindication. I say "at the very least" because a big part of what it will give you if you were close, is night after night of regret and depression...knowing you were that close. I get it but if you were way off you might feel at the minimum like a doofus for spending all those hours and money...I guess it could go either way. I think the window of opportunity has closed for finder to leave it in it's place. Imagine the backlash from all the angry searchers who did post their solutions and could've had a second chance and kept their dreams alive. Think about all the searchers who don't have solid solves and then read a great one and copy someones ideas and hard work and go get it. That would really stink. This hunt is absolutely over. It may not be the ending any of us had hoped for but we need to accept it and move on. |
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Post by nkown on Jun 11, 2020 9:18:50 GMT -5
History doesn't repeat itself but it does have an echo.
If you read Quest for the Golden Hare you will see that it ended oddly... someone essentially mailed in with the right location but hadn't done the solve. When Kit heard the right spot he got excited and called the 'finder', tipping him off. Only a few weeks later a group of very analytical folks sent in the proper solution, which is published in full at the end of that book.
This feels similar, without knowing any details. Had I found the chest I could both remain anonymous if I so chose, while still engaging with the community and press about how it was solved... ultimately what everyone is curious about. I can certainly live without knowing, but it'd be nice to see if the puzzle was elegant or random, clever or stupid, if the finder was lucky or smart.
FF wrote hundreds of scrapbooks and many were quite elaborate puzzles. That had to take time. I fail to believe that he didn't also have a detailed solution written out somewhere ready to roll. The legal angle also is pretty frail -- nuisance lawsuits never stopped him before. So the issues may be a bit different and unpredictable, just as it was with Masquerade.
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Post by woollybugger on Jun 11, 2020 10:02:51 GMT -5
I'll be perfectly honest. If Forrest says its over... its over. This means only one thing now... protecting the integrity of your solution. If for any reason on earth, you thought that your solution and your spot was where the treasure was retrieved, then you should post it! This ensures that once the spot is revealed (which I fully believe it will be), that NO ONE can tell you "YEAH RIGHT! Sure that was your spot." Why? Because you posted it here, before the actual spot was revealed. At the very least it would give you some personal vindication. I say "at the very least" because a big part of what it will give you if you were close, is night after night of regret and depression...knowing you were that close. I get it but if you were way off you might feel at the minimum like a doofus for spending all those hours and money...I guess it could go either way. I think the window of opportunity has closed for finder to leave it in it's place. Imagine the backlash from all the angry searchers who did post their solutions and could've had a second chance and kept their dreams alive. Think about all the searchers who don't have solid solves and then read a great one and copy someones ideas and hard work and go get it. That would really stink. This hunt is absolutely over. It may not be the ending any of us had hoped for but we need to accept it and move on. Well if this thread teaches us anything, it’s that if you’re way off you’re in terrific company!  I’m actually shocked at the lack of consensus and “oh that’s definitely right.” There are a lot of things shared here that I like, but none of the head pounding “why didn’t I think of that?!” which Forrest assured would be the case. Not discounting anyone’s solves, because they’re all better than my incomplete partials. I’m just surprised that this community has so little in common in their solves. Speaks to how hard the puzzle truly was... more props to the finder. |
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I’m actually shocked at the lack of consensus and “oh that’s definitely right.” There are a lot of things shared here that I like, but none of the head pounding “why didn’t I think of that?!” which Forrest assured would be the case. Not discounting anyone’s solves, because they’re all better than my incomplete partials. I’m just surprised that this community has so little in common in their solves. Speaks to how hard the puzzle truly was... more props to the finder.