|
Post by voxpops on Mar 30, 2020 8:06:51 GMT -5
Is the issue of finding the chest just that BOTG is needed to search the different 'areas' the poem leads to. Interpretations to the stanzas are many....and so then are 'solutions'... Someone 'eventually' will hit upon the correct 'area'.... but maybe as Forrest says, you won't know you have WWWH correct until you search and find the chest....and this just takes time.... Jenny, I don't believe that this is either a guessing game or a process of elimination. I think, instead, it's a process that is designed to fail - in the sense that there is something that FF is searching for, which can only be provided by a specific individual who is also being hunted. The poem will only reveal its secrets to that person. The rest of it is exactly what FF has said - namely a means to get people off their texting devices and out into the mountains, with the enormous benefits to physical, mental, and spiritual health that can provide. Of course, none of us can know whether we are the fox dressed as a hound who is being sought until the end. In order to "earn" the gold, a very important service must be rendered.
|
|
|
Post by voxpops on Mar 30, 2020 4:28:38 GMT -5
It seems like Forrest is using Smell the Sunshine's analysis as a way to gradually pull back the veil on his thinking behind the Chase - and by extension on where the authentic FF can be found. IMO, it is experience and what we learn from it that is at the heart of this hunt.
But to address Zap's point about imagination vs logic, I would agree that logical analysis is an absolutely essential component, but I would also suggest that only by flying high in our imagination can we see the faint outline of the trails we need to follow. As for hunches, I think there is a good reason for Forrest to "poo-poo" them. All of us, without exception, have so far based our searches on hunches, as none of us has anything to go on other than our interpretation of the poem (and/or ATFs). In order to move with confidence we must surely need hard evidence. You can't win a court case without proof; why should the Chase be any different?
|
|
|
Post by voxpops on Mar 15, 2020 15:54:55 GMT -5
We have a poem that can be, and has been, interpreted tens of thousands of different ways, across millions of acres, and all to no avail. That must tell us that our approach maybe mistaken, and that it simply isn't possible to use conventional methods. At the same time we hear reports from a number of searchers of strange events and finds occurring in their personal searches (I am one of them). Fenn has made many remarks and told multiple stories that leave people baffled. He has said that nothing is as it seems, and that he is the most spiritual person you'll ever know (worth thinking about that); he has spoken about the importance of kindness; he has been seen in a video (one of Dal's IIRC) hinting at how to approach the spiritual journey in the modern world. If you go through his writings and pronouncements with that notion in mind, the hints are all over the place. Most importantly he has told us we have to LISTEN GOOD, and that the clues can LEAD you to the treasure. So if the solution is to listen and then act in response, what are we supposed to listen to? And if FF is also listening for the "clomp" of a boot, how is the deaf old coot managing that? In the end, no one else can break down the barrier that we've all built around ourselves. I can't tell you directly what your inner self is trying to tell you; only you can decide to listen. That's why it's pretty pointless trying to "spit it out" to someone in this thread - it has to come from within. This is as much as I want to say about that aspect, but it bears heavily on how FF KNOWS (without a shadow of doubt IMO) the situation regarding his treasure. And it explains why the eventual finder will be confident. There are many odd things happening in the world right now. I don't know if there is a connection to what we're engaged in, but I do believe that connections, links, passages - call 'em what you will - are what the Chase is all about. Thank you for the explanation. If you are alluding to a personal quest of sorts that we have each embarked on I think that is true. I'm just not sure how this theory would lead to an actual tangible object, the treasure chest, unless the treasure is to be awarded rather than found. Goldilocks, I think it's the only way to find the treasure chest. The poem helps us learn how to listen...
|
|
|
Post by voxpops on Mar 15, 2020 15:03:53 GMT -5
Although I am intrigued by the spiritual, perhaps alien, solution being proposed; I would like to offer a possible scientific explanation. Solar panels that could track the sun were known around 2008-2009. Asset tracking devices have also been out there for a while. Although I don’t think solar powered tracking devices were introduced commercially until after the chase started, they certainly exist. Is it possible, FF created such a device? Or had connections for a beta device? I don’t think the blaze is a solar panel but who knows! globalstar.com/en-us/products/asset-management/smartonesolar All transmitting devices can be intercepted and traced.
|
|
|
Post by voxpops on Mar 15, 2020 14:39:43 GMT -5
That maybe so, but FF has said that he hasn't been back to the spot, and it seems he travels very little now. How would he know that there has been no movement or retrieval without (very) regular trips to the area? I would suggest that there are no easy explanations that stand up to scrutiny. At the risk of thrillchaser getting upset with me again ( ) I believe it's worth thinking the unthinkable: that when FF says he feels almost umbilically attached, he really does mean it. There are a lot of people in the Chase who profess to believe in stories written thousands of years ago, but when confronted by things that are similarly inexplicable by conventional standards today, refuse to accept that just maybe we're witnessing something quite remarkable. Where is our curiosity? Where is our ability to adjust? No, I don't "know" anything, but this adventure has changed what I believe. He wouldn't have to go to the spot to see it, just near it so I guess it depends how exact he is with his wording - back to the spot or back to the spot within hundreds of yards etc. As far as your comment, I don't really know what you are suggesting. Can you be more specific. I have an open mind but not sure what you are trying to say. We have a poem that can be, and has been, interpreted tens of thousands of different ways, across millions of acres, and all to no avail. That must tell us that our approach maybe mistaken, and that it simply isn't possible to use conventional methods. At the same time we hear reports from a number of searchers of strange events and finds occurring in their personal searches (I am one of them). Fenn has made many remarks and told multiple stories that leave people baffled. He has said that nothing is as it seems, and that he is the most spiritual person you'll ever know (worth thinking about that); he has spoken about the importance of kindness; he has been seen in a video (one of Dal's IIRC) hinting at how to approach the spiritual journey in the modern world. If you go through his writings and pronouncements with that notion in mind, the hints are all over the place. Most importantly he has told us we have to LISTEN GOOD, and that the clues can LEAD you to the treasure. So if the solution is to listen and then act in response, what are we supposed to listen to? And if FF is also listening for the "clomp" of a boot, how is the deaf old coot managing that? In the end, no one else can break down the barrier that we've all built around ourselves. I can't tell you directly what your inner self is trying to tell you; only you can decide to listen. That's why it's pretty pointless trying to "spit it out" to someone in this thread - it has to come from within. This is as much as I want to say about that aspect, but it bears heavily on how FF KNOWS (without a shadow of doubt IMO) the situation regarding his treasure. And it explains why the eventual finder will be confident. There are many odd things happening in the world right now. I don't know if there is a connection to what we're engaged in, but I do believe that connections, links, passages - call 'em what you will - are what the Chase is all about.
|
|
|
Post by voxpops on Mar 15, 2020 13:57:45 GMT -5
Perhaps the hiding spot, while technically isolated, is viewable from afar. Maybe it would not be possible to retrieve without witnesses. Yes maybe the spot can be driven to and the chest (or if it's buried whatever covering and concealing the spot) can be visible with binoculars. That maybe so, but FF has said that he hasn't been back to the spot, and it seems he travels very little now. How would he know that there has been no movement or retrieval without (very) regular trips to the area? I would suggest that there are no easy explanations that stand up to scrutiny. At the risk of thrillchaser getting upset with me again ( ) I believe it's worth thinking the unthinkable: that when FF says he feels almost umbilically attached, he really does mean it. There are a lot of people in the Chase who profess to believe in stories written thousands of years ago, but when confronted by things that are similarly inexplicable by conventional standards today, refuse to accept that just maybe we're witnessing something quite remarkable. Where is our curiosity? Where is our ability to adjust? No, I don't "know" anything, but this adventure has changed what I believe.
|
|
|
Post by voxpops on Mar 15, 2020 9:17:12 GMT -5
The longer this chase goes the more we need to consider abandoning our fundamental beliefs. ^^^^^^ This.
|
|
|
Post by voxpops on Mar 15, 2020 8:56:42 GMT -5
Perhaps the hiding spot, while technically isolated, is viewable from afar. Maybe it would not be possible to retrieve without witnesses. I think you're absolutely right.
|
|
|
Post by voxpops on Mar 15, 2020 7:45:42 GMT -5
if you have an answer you should either spit it out or not say anything about it and act like you know. you wouldn't be concerned of being called crazy. the know it all but not telling attitude in the chase is worse than a hunch. and forrest says that was the worse. he wasn't thinking of what his chase would cause. I think you make a fair point. But this is a discussion about how Fenn knows the status of the treasure, and I clearly spelled out why I don't think any of the standard explanations hold water. I'm suggesting an alternative interpretation, but one that is almost impossible to describe in direct terms - it's something you have to experience.
|
|
|
Post by voxpops on Mar 15, 2020 7:32:52 GMT -5
I think we need to use imagination here as well. He said it has not been moved, let alone retrieved. That would tend to rule out bank accounts. The logistics for maintaining functioning surveillance cameras or other technological devices over the course of ten years (without any direct human intervention) suggests that is not a viable route either. So what does that leave for the umbilically attached Fenn who felt a part of him slip inside the chest? Either the movement associated with the opening of the chest causes something physical to happen that is almost immediately noticeable miles away (unlikely IMO), or most searchers have been ignoring what is right in front of us, has been alluded to on a number of occasions in a variety of different ways by FF, and fits the nature of a poem that took fifteen years to perfect and has only resulted, so far, in thousands of vacations in thousands of different, yet fascinating, locations. It might be worth thinking about how Fenn's certainty regarding retrieval may be linked to the method needed to solve the puzzle. The deeply (and perhaps rigidly) logical among us at some point will surely have to yield to the inevitable conclusion. If quantum physics has taught us anything, it is that Newtonian physics only reveals the visible tip of the iceberg of knowledge. Things are far stranger the deeper you dive. you don't have a clue either or you would spit it out. all the I knows of the chase but won't tell is telling Lol, I think I just did - if I said it any more plainly, you'd just call me crazy!
|
|
|
Post by voxpops on Mar 15, 2020 6:40:13 GMT -5
I think we need to use imagination here as well. He said it has not been moved, let alone retrieved. That would tend to rule out bank accounts. The logistics for maintaining functioning surveillance cameras or other technological devices over the course of ten years (without any direct human intervention) suggests that is not a viable route either.
So what does that leave for the umbilically attached Fenn who felt a part of him slip inside the chest? Either the movement associated with the opening of the chest causes something physical to happen that is almost immediately noticeable miles away (unlikely IMO), or most searchers have been ignoring what is right in front of us, has been alluded to on a number of occasions in a variety of different ways by FF, and fits the nature of a poem that took fifteen years to perfect and has only resulted, so far, in thousands of vacations in thousands of different, yet fascinating, locations.
It might be worth thinking about how Fenn's certainty regarding retrieval may be linked to the method needed to solve the puzzle. The deeply (and perhaps rigidly) logical among us at some point will surely have to yield to the inevitable conclusion. If quantum physics has taught us anything, it is that Newtonian physics only reveals the visible tip of the iceberg of knowledge. Things are far stranger the deeper you dive.
|
|
|
Post by voxpops on Jan 28, 2020 5:29:26 GMT -5
Hi dalby2020 , I wanted to reply, somewhat tangentially, to your post here, but also with reference to your thoughts as expressed in the REAL treasure thread. First a disclaimer: as well as posting rarely these days, I have a pitifully poor knowledge of Goethe, so I'm not going to be much help to anybody! However, I thought your ideas were fresh and interesting and merited some sort of response. I really like the line, "Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and magic in it," as I think that encapsulates the Chase very well, whether or not FF was conscious of it at the time he penned the poem. Also, as a highly creative and accomplished polymath, there are undoubtedly reflections of the kind of life Goethe led in FF's own attitudes and achievements. Although I don't think it will help looking for direct parallels, I see no harm in taking inspiration from this kind of source. And that leads me to your interpretive precis of the poem. As you probably know, FF has cautioned against "messing" with his poem. I believe that you need the poem as written to be able to make any kind of progress. That said, I think many people (and I'm one of them) are of the opinion that we don't know the full story behind this treasure hunt, and that there is more to be revealed eventually - something "significant" to use Forrest's own word. Thinking deeply about the poem and its meaning may lead to insights that are helpful. FF took fifteen years to perfect the poem. He has stated that he had "help," but what form that help took is never fully revealed, other than taking his initial cue from Ralph Lauren. He has also indicated (paraphrasing) that six or eight events had to occur for the Chase to work. To my mind, we are dealing with a truly mysterious story - and I think FF has mentioned the "mystery" in the poem. This is not just a salesman's hyperbole, in my opinion, but could well be referencing something of genuine importance. We need to be open to the mystery. So how do you reconcile the "mystery," "significance," and "help" with FF's claim that the poem is "straight forward?" I believe it is through deep thought. The poem may be describing a simple route (to an actual treasure chest), but in order to divine what it is we have to dig deep - very deep. After all, which of the thousand-and-one candidates for WWWH is the correct one? The answer will only come from the deepest thought, listening acutely, and by accepting help - in the same way that FF had help when writing the poem. Otherwise, how will you know when and how to adjust? And there lies the real problem in my view: most of us are unwilling to adjust. Goethe was right that we have to begin... and Fenn was right that we have to adjust.
|
|
|
Post by voxpops on Jan 4, 2020 1:01:31 GMT -5
What if you did away with reading/interpreting the poem altogether? Instead, view the letters as a child might...as a collection of lines, curves, and squiggles. Could these serve as a 'map' of sort. Perhaps if they were condensed (space removed from between the characters)? I think it might be better to think of the poem as an alchemy recipe - one for transforming base metal into gold. But for that you need the words, not just lines and squiggles. Beyond that, I believe the poem can be viewed as a literal map of sorts if you view the relationship between the various parts.
|
|
|
Post by voxpops on Jan 3, 2020 7:38:57 GMT -5
harrytruman has made an important point above, IMO: the distinction between the mental and the physical. AFAIK, the only physical presence required is at the end. How you arrive at that point is up to you - as long as you follow the clues at least in your mind. Where you begin your journey may be many miles away, and in any event the distance covered will probably be "too far to walk," but from the parking spot to the chest, like Forrest, you will undoubtedly want to take the most direct and easiest route. The legendary person who was 200' from the hiding place did not know the significance of where they were, and in any event would have been unable to simply keep marching forward to the chest as the terrain precluded it from where they stood. As for WWWH, it may be more important to worry about that mentally than physically. Just be sure to take it in the canyon down. Of course, the above is conjecture, but you never know! Agreed there is value in distinguishing between the mental and physical 'following' of the clues. Would it be fair to say there is some evidence that you *do* have to physically follow the clues in this: "To answer some questions and save others from being asked, I did follow the clues in the poem when I hid the treasure chest, although I hid it before the poem was complete. (Completed?) f " Per my original post, if there was a shorter route, why didn't he follow it? (Sentimentalism? - I doubt it, since the poem wasn't finished at that point). Aside- can we discern anything from the fact that the poem wasn't finalised when he hid the chest? Well, as far as physically following the clues, it all depends on how you believe they are laid out geographically. A lot of people think that it's a question of following a trail from one clue to the next, but then you might ask what's the point of nine clues if you're simply on the lookout for a series of confirmatory features or markers. If you know where to park and you know where you're heading, you don't need to follow clues physically unless there are significant choices and changes of direction. Isn't it more likely that the clues enable you to find the location in the first place, and that the retrieval is then a straightforward process? Recognizing the blaze should provide all the confirmation you need, and I believe that Google will help with that prior to your trip. FF said that he did follow the clues in the poem - not on the ground. It's also useful to understand the change from "complete" to "completed," As for a shorter route, I don't think there is a practical shorter route from the parking spot. As for your final question, we cannot be sure from FF's statement that the treasure chest and "it" are the same things. It may be the classic Fenn double-entendre. I'm one of those who firmly believes that there is a subplot to this treasure hunt and that what appears on the surface is only the tip of a very meaningful iceberg.
|
|
|
Post by voxpops on Jan 3, 2020 4:34:42 GMT -5
harrytruman has made an important point above, IMO: the distinction between the mental and the physical. AFAIK, the only physical presence required is at the end. How you arrive at that point is up to you - as long as you follow the clues at least in your mind. Where you begin your journey may be many miles away, and in any event the distance covered will probably be "too far to walk," but from the parking spot to the chest, like Forrest, you will undoubtedly want to take the most direct and easiest route. The legendary person who was 200' from the hiding place did not know the significance of where they were, and in any event would have been unable to simply keep marching forward to the chest as the terrain precluded it from where they stood. As for WWWH, it may be more important to worry about that mentally than physically. Just be sure to take it in the canyon down. Of course, the above is conjecture, but you never know!
|
|