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Post by voxpops on Sept 19, 2019 8:07:10 GMT -5
Am I the only one that thinks Fenn's Apollo connections suggest it's actually orbiting the earth, and thus free from any land-based legal trouble? I do think the Apollo connections are important, but I doubt that the TC is orbiting the earth (difficult to explain away an extra 42lbs of payload!), although until it's retrieved no one can say for sure!
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Post by voxpops on Sept 19, 2019 8:03:03 GMT -5
. voxpops, What you are alluding to is on my list of possibilities, I just dont mention it in these types of forums because it seems to be taboo. There is a puzzle called “Maranatha - Et in Arcadia Ego” about the mysteries, and the Key to the Holy Grail. To claim the prize, one had to discover the Key, and submit the answer. The puzzle clearly stated that the method of “submission” was part of the puzzle. I think this is more blatantly along the lines of what you point toward. The puzzle focuses on contentment, so I find it interesting that Forrest mentioned contentment as a key. In my work with Forrests puzzle, I have found undercurrents of some of the mystery references (As above, So below is one such reference ... there are the obvious ones that people can easily see, but there are also more powerful ones that i havent seen mentioned anywhere). In a practical sense, I dont see that these things apply for this puzzle, if all one is after is the Indulgence chest. Be Well, astree astree, I'm very much in agreement with you. If all one is after is Indulgence, there are practical, straightforward, and highly logical methods available. Funnily enough, for a while I've been bothered by a logical piece of confirmation eluding my grasp, despite having a "suitable" ending to my solve. It suddenly came into focus this morning, and was something of a head-slap moment in its simplicity. So, I would argue that we can - and should - approach the poem with a heavy reliance on logic. However, there are subcurrents. You mention "contentment" as a key, and I would agree with that. Going further, I'd suggest that FF's consuming interest in Native American culture includes its spiritual dimension. He must have foreseen that a likely byproduct of the endless reciting of the poem, coupled with exposure to the wilderness, deep thought, and flights of imagination, would be a psychological "realignment," and that this might elucidate a "higher purpose" in the Chase - namely elevating it to the status of a vision quest. Personally, I think Forrest could be described as a spiritual "adept," and his umbilical connection with the treasure's location grants him situational awareness of a higher order. Many people will disagree and continue to argue over webcams, IOUs, and private versus public land. I don't think that will get anyone any further in their understanding, but that's all part of the overall community dialogue. What no one has been able to do is to make sense of so many aberrations in the SBs and other writings - things that, on the surface, just don't make any sense when applying everyday rationality. It's too easy (even lazy) to explain away such things as mistakes or embellishments for the purpose of storytelling. FF has a laser-like focus on his subject, and he is never sloppy in his approach - at least in my opinion.
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Post by voxpops on Sept 19, 2019 2:09:32 GMT -5
Is the truth stranger than fiction?
What if there's no technology involved and yet FF knows with certainty the status of his treasures?
What if there are no emails or letters and yet FF knows when someone is on point?
What if FF was correct when he stated that nothing is as it seems?
These may not be the type of questions we want to consider, but is it possible that they could point to a deeper truth? Our 21st century rationality scoffs at such woo-woo notions, but any impartial observer of the Chase has to wonder what the heck is really going on here. Until fairly recently most searchers have been desperately trying to squeeze FF's seemingly contradictory or unresolvable statements into a four-square box of bounded perception - but they just don't seem to fit! Strange, unattributable websites come and go that seem to hint at some inside knowledge. The poem sends searchers confidently to practically every canyon and trail in the four-state Rockies. There's clearly something missing. What could that be?
It is very hard for most of us to let go of our preconceptions, particularly when many of us are middle-aged or older and set in our ways. But that is also the traditional period in life when people take time to ponder deeper meanings. When asked about driving people crazy with his poem, FF was happy to take credit for that, because it was making searchers think - something he takes time out to do every morning. I very much doubt he's thinking about what he's going to have for lunch. We all know Fenn is a remarkable human being, perhaps it's best not to draw limits around what we believe he's capable of. But - and this is a big BUT - we should also not draw limits around what WE'RE capable of. Fenn is human: we are human; if Fenn has expanded his awareness, so can we. Is that what the poem is all about? I firmly believe so. It's about making those links, joining up the dots, learning to see.
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Post by voxpops on Sept 16, 2019 14:15:53 GMT -5
Hi Jenny: hmmm. Pony Express. Maybe Forrest received a letter by snail mail rather than email that someone has figured something out. And if so, perhaps the Wetherill silver is getting closer to coming home. No need for email or snail mail if Pony Ault delivers the message.
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Post by voxpops on Aug 20, 2019 7:29:43 GMT -5
"There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f"
Anyone familiar with crosswords will note a couple of things here: "over simplify" and "short cuts." Both are normally a single word: "oversimplify" and "shortcuts." If we are talking about a short cut, it doesn't mean a foreshortened journey (although I don't think there are any shortcuts to be had either!), but the opposite of a long cut. So by saying "no short cuts" it has a meaning not far removed from the idea behind the song, The First Cut is the Deepest. You are going to make a large incision (a little like the SB picture of the long scratch on FF's table). As for "over simplify," that might well suggest that we turn "simplify" over. The result of that is a nice little anagram that you might want to put aside for later use.
Then there's "discount." If it's risky to discount, it might be better to...
I don't think we can afford to be lax when reading FF's written quotes.
Going back to the latter part of the quote, it's important to really analyze what he's saying. If there are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, unless the poem unequivocally tells us which one, we're either stuck (and let's face it, searchers must have tried just about every WWWH, hoB and blaze combination by now), or we're just going to have to pick one - and stick with it. And how can that possibly work - this isn't a lottery? Forrest has said that the person who can best adjust is going to be the winner. So, by a process of deep thinking, application of logic, awareness, tenacity, perseverance and multiple adjustments, the answer will eventually emerge. And here's the important bit: there will be help along the way - not just in ATFs etc., but out there, on the ground and in the aberrations we notice - as long as we pay attention.
So what about this "long" cut? That's something personal, and likely painful for a while. But the end result may just be a clearer vision, and a better understanding of where warm waters REALLY halt.
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Post by voxpops on Aug 19, 2019 10:36:03 GMT -5
Here's something to chew on. Imagine for a moment that you've just had that leaky radiator fixed on your Chevy Tahoe. You're about to set off on your search but you've no idea where warm waters halt - you're just going to wing it. You fire up the engine and hop out to check that there are no tell-tale puddles on the asphalt. Nothing. Great! And the engine is sounding sweet - barely even getting warm, as the cooling system is at peak performance. As you're driving the idea comes to you to head to Dubois, WY. At your motel, checking on Google, you see a fabulous blaze just north of town (believe it or not, there is one!). The next morning, you wend your way up the slopes of Table Mountain, park a few feet from the blaze, look quickly down and find Fenn's box of tricks just awaiting your arrival. Eureka! Those warm waters in your recently repaired radiator had brought you to the promised land. OK, pure fantasy, but... is the idea that WWWH is "portable" completely ridiculous? Where did the search end? It ended where warm waters halted. There was no way of being certain that you had the right WWWH until you found the treasure. Back in the real world, this scenario leaves you with a conundrum (or 9). What possible use is a "portable" WWWH, and how could it possibly lead you to the gold? What about your starting point? How do you get from "here" to "there?" That's for those who want to ponder such a scenario and have been puzzled by the double Omega and the T.S. Eliot quote: “We shall not cease from exploration And the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time. Through the unknown, remembered gate When the last of earth left to discover Is that which was the beginning; At the source of the longest river The voice of the hidden waterfall And the children in the apple-tree Not known, because not looked for But heard, half-heard, in the stillness Between two waves of the sea.” [End note: if anyone thinks I'm actually advocating a vehicle being WWWH, then please read the above again - perhaps a few times! )
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Post by voxpops on Aug 15, 2019 15:59:23 GMT -5
It may be worth revisiting the quote: The solve is difficult for many searchers because their minds think the clues are tougher to decrypt than they really are.Some say they are trying to think outside the box, as if the solution lies somewhere out there.Until now I have resisted telling them to get back in the box where their thoughts are comfortable and flow more easily.The blueprint is challenging so the treasure may be located by the one who can best adjust. To illustrate my point go to YouTube – Smarter Every Day. f
What we need to ask ourselves is, what is "the box where are thoughts are comfortable and flow more easily?" Brainbox?
Our homes (Little boxes made of ticky-tacky")? OH!'s map square? The parameters of the poem? General knowledge? It could be any one of these, more than one, or something else entirely, but given the context (somewhere comfortable) it may be that he's hinting at doing our thinking before putting BOTG, and also looking within. If the solution does not "lie somewhere out there," it must surely lie within. Where would within be? I would suggest that it is both within the poem and within our own minds - the place where we're most comfortable. I happen to believe that the poem repeated often enough acts as a mantra and will aid insight. But it's also a mine of hard information. I agree that the actual answers are not so far out there ("not so tough to decrypt"), but to correlate the concrete data into something usable is where the imagination comes in - because the "blueprint is challenging." And it's probably more than a little imagination that's required. I say that because it's necessary to break our normal (learned) mode of thinking and processing the world around us. Our " minds think the clues are tougher to decrypt than they really are," and I would suggest that's because we use a form of shorthand to process what we see and hear, slotting everything into ready-made categories and compartments. If we step outside of those somewhat lazy norms, we have to see everything fresh and resist the urge to use shorthand to provide easy answers. In other words we need to relearn how to see the world - more like a child for whom everything is new and alive. The end result of this relearning not only helps us with the poem, but also kindles a kind of magic. It's a very exciting and sometimes scary process - rather like being a small child again! No offense, but I think your response is exactly the kind of thing he is referring to when he tells people they need to get back in the box or that they are overcooking the poem. None taken! But I realize I left out the most important part of that quote: " Dear Mz. Mary," Have fun!
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Post by voxpops on Aug 15, 2019 15:38:01 GMT -5
While he doers make frequent references to imagination, he also had to tell everyone to get back in the box. There's a difference between using a little imagination to solve a clue and the stuff I'm seeing people post as a solve. I think I may know what he means by imagination, and it's not so far out there that every clue is a riddle or that every answer is a metaphor. It may be worth revisiting the quote: The solve is difficult for many searchers because their minds think the clues are tougher to decrypt than they really are.Some say they are trying to think outside the box, as if the solution lies somewhere out there.Until now I have resisted telling them to get back in the box where their thoughts are comfortable and flow more easily.The blueprint is challenging so the treasure may be located by the one who can best adjust. To illustrate my point go to YouTube – Smarter Every Day. f
What we need to ask ourselves is, what is "the box where are thoughts are comfortable and flow more easily?" Brainbox?
Our homes (Little boxes made of ticky-tacky")? OH!'s map square? The parameters of the poem? General knowledge? It could be any one of these, more than one, or something else entirely, but given the context (somewhere comfortable) it may be that he's hinting at doing our thinking before putting BOTG, and also looking within. If the solution does not "lie somewhere out there," it must surely lie within. Where would within be? I would suggest that it is both within the poem and within our own minds - the place where we're most comfortable. I happen to believe that the poem repeated often enough acts as a mantra and will aid insight. But it's also a mine of hard information. I agree that the actual answers are not so far out there (not so tough to decrypt), but to correlate the concrete data into something usable is where the imagination comes in - because the "blueprint is challenging." And it's probably more than a little imagination that's required. I say that because it's necessary to break our normal (learned) mode of thinking and processing the world around us. Our " minds think the clues are tougher to decrypt than they really are," and I would suggest that's because we use a form of shorthand to process what we see and hear, slotting everything into ready-made categories and compartments. If we step outside of those somewhat lazy norms, we have to see everything fresh and resist the urge to use shorthand to provide easy answers. In other words we need to relearn how to see the world - more like a child for whom everything is new and alive. The end result of this relearning not only helps us with the poem, but also kindles a kind of magic. It's a very exciting and sometimes scary process - rather like being a small child again!
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Post by voxpops on Aug 15, 2019 14:06:19 GMT -5
I agree mostly with that.... I was just saying that I feel Imagination left wild might have a tendency to wander too far from where the chest actually rests........ It sort of goes with the quote--- follow your heart, but take your brain with you. I feel the poem can be found WITH imagination, not solely...... It may be 'Key', but it is nothing without a lock for which to use it on...so to speak... Yes, focus is essential!
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Post by voxpops on Aug 15, 2019 12:41:29 GMT -5
Thanks bownarrow..... 2012! I like those early quotes.... While imagination seems to be certainly important.....there is still keeping it in check and not over cooking it ..... Whoever finds that balance...might be the one to find the Treasure.... Jenny, I'm not sure "...keeping it in check..." fits very comfortably with "...will mostly earn it with their imagination." Teasing out the information buried in the poem and applying it without any clear reference points to guide you requires a tour-de-force of imagination, IMO. And by making that supreme effort, you are beginning to open your mind to greater awareness and positive influences that can provide feedback to help you in your quest. Then you can make use of the hard info that's in the poem.
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Post by voxpops on Aug 13, 2019 15:37:56 GMT -5
Thanks for posting that quote, Jenny. I'd not seen it before, and to me it makes a lot of sense.
What follows is written as if it were fact, when (in fact) it's just my opinion. Please forgive me if it offends.
Many people have tried to engineer a solution to the poem, but it cannot be done. Yes, it is deeply logical and "technique" must be used but, first and foremost, it REQUIRES imagination. Why? Because the only way to move beyond the early stages is to penetrate the deepest recesses of your mind and then apply what you find there to the outside world. Even that by itself is insufficient. Awareness of your surroundings - and that includes the internet, books, your interactions with others, even what you might find walking down the street - is important, as it forms part of the requirement to "listen." There is a chasm between where you start your search and where you are expected to finish. To bridge the gap it's necessary to adopt a new mindset.
Recently, before it went offline and the domain changed hands, the WWW-H site contained references to Apollo 11, along with some cryptic messages; it served (among other things) as a useful reminder. When Kennedy first committed the US to putting a man on the moon within a decade, the science and technology was hopelessly inadequate. No one knew how to meet such an extreme challenge. The chasm could only be bridged through imagination and intense focus. Then, and only then, could the tools be developed that would allow Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins to complete that amazing mission. The Chase is designed to work on similar principles. The poem does not tell you where to go, but it does tell you how to apply what your imagination generates. And unfortunately there really are no shortcuts: yes, you might make a lucky guess as to the area where the chest is located, but since there are no obvious features to guide you, unless you've taken the "full course" it's pretty much impossible to pin the final spot down. You need to learn the techniques as you progress, and each one is likely to reappear in a slightly different guise further down the line. If you haven't taken on board the lessons, you'll not know how to adjust and readjust so that the penny eventually drops.
People can pick any WWWH and hoB they like, they can try anagrams, acrostics, numbers, homophones - you name it - but without imagination on a "cosmic" scale, it will all come to nought. That is not to say that some of the aforementioned techniques aren't important, simply that by themselves they are insufficient. Forrest has said (quoting Longfellow) that things are not what they seem; we all need to take that on board.
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Post by voxpops on May 29, 2019 8:37:17 GMT -5
This is very interesting. Even though I believe the TC is nowhere near the places detailed on the included map, using pretty much the same technique I utilized previously (from a different starting point), it should be possible to navigate to the end point from there.
That's a neat map, drpepperwood. Thanks for posting!
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Post by voxpops on Dec 29, 2018 8:31:29 GMT -5
I see MANY similarities between forrest in TTOTC and heyoka. I think this is pretty cool. Make sure to read to the bottom. The symbols!!! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeyokaYES! Heidini! They exsist in a state of balance! Always knowing where edges are! Like many of the scrapbooks that go from one extreme to the other; bad to good, sad to happy, etc. Thank you to johnedo, npsbuilder, and heidini for some very important information.
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Post by voxpops on Jul 16, 2018 1:39:22 GMT -5
...you have to solve the poem twice (or solve two riddles) in two different locations in order to get to the end. Listen good to CJ!
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Post by voxpops on Jul 16, 2018 1:20:12 GMT -5
Both Zap and Wolf are correct, IMO. A few people may remember that quite a while back I posted a series of images which included an "asterisk." Because it was a zoomed in slice of a Google satellite image (the asterisk is small), the picture was blurry, but the form was quite recognizable. You can find the asterisk at the starting point (at the right time of year). Its "twin" can be found elsewhere. The journey is long and arduous, and you must make a whole series of lines cross in the right places.
Oh, and I should add that Passages 4 goes to the heart of the matter.
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